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	<title>Comments on: Mindful Drinking? (Vajrayana tradition: Alcohol &amp; Buddhism)</title>
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	<link>http://www.elephantjournal.com/2009/03/mindful-drinking-vajrayana-tradition-alcohol-and-buddhism/</link>
	<description>daily blog, videos, e-newsletter &#38; magazine on yoga + organics + green living + non-new agey spirituality + ecofashion + conscious consumerism=it&#039;s about the mindful life.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 17:00:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.elephantjournal.com/2009/03/mindful-drinking-vajrayana-tradition-alcohol-and-buddhism/comment-page-1/#comment-2700856</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 08:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=9893#comment-2700856</guid>
		<description>I have to thank you for this post. I know it was written a long time ago, but I had a very similar experience recently at a Buddhist temple over New Years. I was reminded of a bumper sticker I was once - &quot;Jesus! Save me from your followers!&quot; This western dilution of illumined teachings...tell me  - does anyone gain muscles going to the gym everyday but only doing five crunches and lifting two pound weights?&quot; People want the reward but none of the guidelines wisdom teachings advise to get there. And since when did Buddhism become a philosophy that looks outside of yourself? If you need alcohol to feel relaxed and open - there is something missing in your meditation practice. When deciding to do anything, we should ask ourselves - &quot;is this conducive to my spiritual practice?&quot;  
We can only surrender to what is within once we&#039;ve left the crutches behind.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to thank you for this post. I know it was written a long time ago, but I had a very similar experience recently at a Buddhist temple over New Years. I was reminded of a bumper sticker I was once &#8211; &quot;Jesus! Save me from your followers!&quot; This western dilution of illumined teachings&#8230;tell me  &#8211; does anyone gain muscles going to the gym everyday but only doing five crunches and lifting two pound weights?&quot; People want the reward but none of the guidelines wisdom teachings advise to get there. And since when did Buddhism become a philosophy that looks outside of yourself? If you need alcohol to feel relaxed and open &#8211; there is something missing in your meditation practice. When deciding to do anything, we should ask ourselves &#8211; &quot;is this conducive to my spiritual practice?&quot;<br />
We can only surrender to what is within once we&#039;ve left the crutches behind.</p>
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		<title>By: itsmeicedtee</title>
		<link>http://www.elephantjournal.com/2009/03/mindful-drinking-vajrayana-tradition-alcohol-and-buddhism/comment-page-1/#comment-2699909</link>
		<dc:creator>itsmeicedtee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jan 2012 16:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=9893#comment-2699909</guid>
		<description>Question: 
 
If the mind is all powerful and is being correlated to god, why does a physical occurrence (alcohol affecting brain cells) affect the way our minds work? Specifically derailing it from its normal action, thoughts, and awareness. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Question: </p>
<p>If the mind is all powerful and is being correlated to god, why does a physical occurrence (alcohol affecting brain cells) affect the way our minds work? Specifically derailing it from its normal action, thoughts, and awareness.</p>
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		<title>By: phathed</title>
		<link>http://www.elephantjournal.com/2009/03/mindful-drinking-vajrayana-tradition-alcohol-and-buddhism/comment-page-1/#comment-1707982</link>
		<dc:creator>phathed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 21:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=9893#comment-1707982</guid>
		<description>&quot;Rather he was saying that with correct mindfulness one could observe the effects of alcohol on the body without losing one&#039;s focus. One could learn to observe a poison in the body and not have the poison destroy one&#039;s ability to function.&quot; That seems like a very risky rationalization for drinking. Chogyam Trungpa died of Cyrrhosis from heavy drinking. That&#039;s about all I need to know to decide whether to follow his word or the word of the buddha. Putting forth drinking as part of practice in a world cursed with endemic abuse of alcohol and high levels of alcoholism seems like the height of irresponsibility to me.  
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Rather he was saying that with correct mindfulness one could observe the effects of alcohol on the body without losing one&#039;s focus. One could learn to observe a poison in the body and not have the poison destroy one&#039;s ability to function.&quot; That seems like a very risky rationalization for drinking. Chogyam Trungpa died of Cyrrhosis from heavy drinking. That&#039;s about all I need to know to decide whether to follow his word or the word of the buddha. Putting forth drinking as part of practice in a world cursed with endemic abuse of alcohol and high levels of alcoholism seems like the height of irresponsibility to me.</p>
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		<title>By: phathed</title>
		<link>http://www.elephantjournal.com/2009/03/mindful-drinking-vajrayana-tradition-alcohol-and-buddhism/comment-page-1/#comment-1707945</link>
		<dc:creator>phathed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 21:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=9893#comment-1707945</guid>
		<description>i found this article to be absurd. the idea of mindful drinking seems like a massive rationalization to me.the main issue around alcohol consumption is that it clouds the mind as you stated early in the article. we&#039;re practicing to be mindful moment to moment and mindfulness is a cornerstone of the eight fold path....that&#039;s a pretty logical reason that drinking isn&#039;t the ninth step of the path.  
 
and using chogyam trungpa as a guide for alcohol consumption would be a very bad idea. it&#039;s been asserted by people close to him, including his doctor, that he died of cirrhosis from heavy drinking and/or alcoholism. his alcohol problems were very widely known. he also was in a car crash that left him partially paralyzed and was again attributed by some to drinking. his wikipedia page is a well footnoted look at the folly of vearing from the buddha&#039;s path. from abuse of sexuality, coercion of students, alcohol abuse...he seems to be making up a new religion and it&#039;s one i wouldn&#039;t want to be a party to. it&#039;s surprising to me how many teachers and students overlook his behavior and rely on his teachings when his own mind ended up causing his own untimely death. 
 
i&#039;d say it&#039;s best to use the buddha as the guide on morals and practice, not someone else&#039;s conveniently liberal interpretation of it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i found this article to be absurd. the idea of mindful drinking seems like a massive rationalization to me.the main issue around alcohol consumption is that it clouds the mind as you stated early in the article. we&#039;re practicing to be mindful moment to moment and mindfulness is a cornerstone of the eight fold path&#8230;.that&#039;s a pretty logical reason that drinking isn&#039;t the ninth step of the path.  </p>
<p>and using chogyam trungpa as a guide for alcohol consumption would be a very bad idea. it&#039;s been asserted by people close to him, including his doctor, that he died of cirrhosis from heavy drinking and/or alcoholism. his alcohol problems were very widely known. he also was in a car crash that left him partially paralyzed and was again attributed by some to drinking. his wikipedia page is a well footnoted look at the folly of vearing from the buddha&#039;s path. from abuse of sexuality, coercion of students, alcohol abuse&#8230;he seems to be making up a new religion and it&#039;s one i wouldn&#039;t want to be a party to. it&#039;s surprising to me how many teachers and students overlook his behavior and rely on his teachings when his own mind ended up causing his own untimely death. </p>
<p>i&#039;d say it&#039;s best to use the buddha as the guide on morals and practice, not someone else&#039;s conveniently liberal interpretation of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Padmasambhava: Part II. ~ Linda Lewis &#124; elephant journal</title>
		<link>http://www.elephantjournal.com/2009/03/mindful-drinking-vajrayana-tradition-alcohol-and-buddhism/comment-page-1/#comment-791184</link>
		<dc:creator>Padmasambhava: Part II. ~ Linda Lewis &#124; elephant journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2011 17:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=9893#comment-791184</guid>
		<description>[...] This view is based on our essential nature, which comes down to pure awareness. That is the most fundamental aspect of what it means to be a sentient being. Duality and conflicting emotions cover this essential awake nature but are not intrinsic to it. That is both the “ground” of Padmasambhava’s story and the view of vajrayana. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This view is based on our essential nature, which comes down to pure awareness. That is the most fundamental aspect of what it means to be a sentient being. Duality and conflicting emotions cover this essential awake nature but are not intrinsic to it. That is both the “ground” of Padmasambhava’s story and the view of vajrayana. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mindful Drinking? &#124; Infinite Smile</title>
		<link>http://www.elephantjournal.com/2009/03/mindful-drinking-vajrayana-tradition-alcohol-and-buddhism/comment-page-1/#comment-286026</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindful Drinking? &#124; Infinite Smile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Oct 2010 20:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=9893#comment-286026</guid>
		<description>[...] Bows, elephant journal. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bows, elephant journal. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mindful vice training. &#124; elephant journal</title>
		<link>http://www.elephantjournal.com/2009/03/mindful-drinking-vajrayana-tradition-alcohol-and-buddhism/comment-page-1/#comment-144102</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindful vice training. &#124; elephant journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 18:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=9893#comment-144102</guid>
		<description>[...] read an article the other day on Mindful Drinking [xxx, xxx] and how you can use drinking as a meditative practice. This is the key I have been looking [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] read an article the other day on Mindful Drinking [xxx, xxx] and how you can use drinking as a meditative practice. This is the key I have been looking [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Danny</title>
		<link>http://www.elephantjournal.com/2009/03/mindful-drinking-vajrayana-tradition-alcohol-and-buddhism/comment-page-1/#comment-80704</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 13:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=9893#comment-80704</guid>
		<description>I second what you said, because nowadays many Buddhist wannabees think they are doing the right thing by drinking. Buddhsim derives from sharmanas religions, which also forms Jainism. In their ORIGINAL religion, the drinking of alcohol is considered as blasphemy, and they believe that the drinker&#039;s face will be &quot;carved&quot; with &quot;Drinker&quot; in the hereafter.  
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second what you said, because nowadays many Buddhist wannabees think they are doing the right thing by drinking. Buddhsim derives from sharmanas religions, which also forms Jainism. In their ORIGINAL religion, the drinking of alcohol is considered as blasphemy, and they believe that the drinker&#039;s face will be &quot;carved&quot; with &quot;Drinker&quot; in the hereafter.</p>
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		<title>By: Yeshe Dorje</title>
		<link>http://www.elephantjournal.com/2009/03/mindful-drinking-vajrayana-tradition-alcohol-and-buddhism/comment-page-1/#comment-42257</link>
		<dc:creator>Yeshe Dorje</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 21:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=9893#comment-42257</guid>
		<description>Wow. I am vowed to celebrate tantric feasting on the 10th and the 25th of the lunar month. Sorry for some of you - that includes flesh food and alcohol. Transforming poison is the way of the tantrikas - the Mahasiddha path. Many of us may fail. I do not blame the Mahasiddhas or Chogyam Trungpa. The tantric way is just one way... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. I am vowed to celebrate tantric feasting on the 10th and the 25th of the lunar month. Sorry for some of you &#8211; that includes flesh food and alcohol. Transforming poison is the way of the tantrikas &#8211; the Mahasiddha path. Many of us may fail. I do not blame the Mahasiddhas or Chogyam Trungpa. The tantric way is just one way&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.elephantjournal.com/2009/03/mindful-drinking-vajrayana-tradition-alcohol-and-buddhism/comment-page-1/#comment-42092</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=9893#comment-42092</guid>
		<description>Maybe a different view can shed light on Trungpa&#039;s teachings. 
 
I do not believe that he was saying that alcohol was helpful to achieving mindfulness. Rather he was saying that with correct mindfulness one could observe the effects of alcohol on the body without losing one&#039;s focus. One could learn to observe a poison in the body and not have the poison destroy one&#039;s ability to function. 
 
That poison might bring about various changes - some beneficial others not - on the physical system but that was not critical to the awareness of a Buddha.  
 
From the higher level view of Vajrayana we should be able to operate a body in any state - in other words, the condition of the body does not determine the condition of mind&#8212;as we have achieved a cessation of attachment to the aggregates.  
 
For those who have not achieved the fruits of this level of practice it would not be wise to include alcohol. 
 
As for the house burning down reflecting bad karma, I would disagree. Given the choice, Trungpa might well have burned it down himself. He did not desire iconic symbols of his presence. 
 
That said, years ago, I noticed that little was left of Trungpa&#039;s original presence and depth of teachings. Not unexpected as good teachers go pretty much unnoticed today. They are like a breeze blowing through an open window in Spring. A few students will be carried away on the breeze while most students will just notice a tickle on the back of their neck.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe a different view can shed light on Trungpa&#039;s teachings. </p>
<p>I do not believe that he was saying that alcohol was helpful to achieving mindfulness. Rather he was saying that with correct mindfulness one could observe the effects of alcohol on the body without losing one&#039;s focus. One could learn to observe a poison in the body and not have the poison destroy one&#039;s ability to function. </p>
<p>That poison might bring about various changes &#8211; some beneficial others not &#8211; on the physical system but that was not critical to the awareness of a Buddha.  </p>
<p>From the higher level view of Vajrayana we should be able to operate a body in any state &#8211; in other words, the condition of the body does not determine the condition of mind&mdash;as we have achieved a cessation of attachment to the aggregates.  </p>
<p>For those who have not achieved the fruits of this level of practice it would not be wise to include alcohol. </p>
<p>As for the house burning down reflecting bad karma, I would disagree. Given the choice, Trungpa might well have burned it down himself. He did not desire iconic symbols of his presence. </p>
<p>That said, years ago, I noticed that little was left of Trungpa&#039;s original presence and depth of teachings. Not unexpected as good teachers go pretty much unnoticed today. They are like a breeze blowing through an open window in Spring. A few students will be carried away on the breeze while most students will just notice a tickle on the back of their neck.</p>
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