Comments on: We here at elephant have always been huge fans of the transformative power of The Secret. (Burp) http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/01/we-here-at-elephant-have-been-huge-fans-of-the-transformative-power-of-the-secret-burp/ daily blog, videos, e-newsletter & magazine on yoga + organics + green living + non-new agey spirituality + ecofashion + conscious consumerism=it's about the mindful life. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:41:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Bob Weisenberg http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/01/we-here-at-elephant-have-been-huge-fans-of-the-transformative-power-of-the-secret-burp/comment-page-1/#comment-29787 Bob Weisenberg Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:27:18 +0000 http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=36397#comment-29787 I still like my example of reincarnation. Right here without even going outside Buddhism itself we have perfect example of one person's ultimate reality being another's ultimate self-deception. Half the Buddhists I know believe in literal reincarnation and the other half either openly disdain it or at best accept it as metaphor. I still like my example of reincarnation. Right here without even going outside Buddhism itself we have perfect example of one person's ultimate reality being another's ultimate self-deception. Half the Buddhists I know believe in literal reincarnation and the other half either openly disdain it or at best accept it as metaphor.

]]> By: elephantjournal http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/01/we-here-at-elephant-have-been-huge-fans-of-the-transformative-power-of-the-secret-burp/comment-page-1/#comment-29786 elephantjournal Sat, 30 Jan 2010 02:24:23 +0000 http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=36397#comment-29786 Interesting. Still, if something is a positive force but ultimately not "real," it's little more than a feel-good stop-gap for samsara. Reality will get you, better harmonize ourselves, quick and dirty fixes don't last! Interesting. Still, if something is a positive force but ultimately not "real," it's little more than a feel-good stop-gap for samsara. Reality will get you, better harmonize ourselves, quick and dirty fixes don't last!

]]> By: PhilosophersNotes | elephant journal http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/01/we-here-at-elephant-have-been-huge-fans-of-the-transformative-power-of-the-secret-burp/comment-page-1/#comment-29785 PhilosophersNotes | elephant journal Sat, 30 Jan 2010 02:22:24 +0000 http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=36397#comment-29785 [...] here at elephant are on the fence when it comes to spiritual products like The Secret…the materialistic focus seems out of place on a path or system of paths that’s devoted [...] [...] here at elephant are on the fence when it comes to spiritual products like The Secret…the materialistic focus seems out of place on a path or system of paths that’s devoted [...]

]]> By: Bob Weisenberg http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/01/we-here-at-elephant-have-been-huge-fans-of-the-transformative-power-of-the-secret-burp/comment-page-1/#comment-29069 Bob Weisenberg Sat, 16 Jan 2010 04:14:31 +0000 http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=36397#comment-29069 Just came across this book on Buddhism that makes the same sharp distinction I made above between Buddhist thought and Buddhism as organized religion: "Buddhism Without Beliefs" by Stephen Batchelor <a href="http://bit.ly/5h0C7a" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/5h0C7a</a> Just came across this book on Buddhism that makes the same sharp distinction I made above between Buddhist thought and Buddhism as organized religion:

"Buddhism Without Beliefs" by Stephen Batchelor http://bit.ly/5h0C7a

]]> By: Bob Weisenberg http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/01/we-here-at-elephant-have-been-huge-fans-of-the-transformative-power-of-the-secret-burp/comment-page-1/#comment-28601 Bob Weisenberg Thu, 07 Jan 2010 23:40:19 +0000 http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=36397#comment-28601 I hate to stir up the pot here (you're saying, "Sure, Bob never likes to stir up the pot!"), but, leaving the vacuousness of "The Secret" aside, where is all this anti-success rhetoric in some of the above comments coming from? Figuring out how to make a living and how to put one's kids through college are at the heart of the majority of ordinary people's lives. I think any spirituality that doesn't support that is going to have limited use at best. We may dislike "The Secret", but let's dislike it because if it's misleading and ineffective, not because it promotes success. Most people who embrace "The Secret", or of the other more solid "self-help" methods, are just trying to make a living and make life better for their children. Bob Weisenberg <a href="http://YogaDemystified.com" target="_blank">http://YogaDemystified.com</a> I hate to stir up the pot here (you're saying, "Sure, Bob never likes to stir up the pot!"), but, leaving the vacuousness of "The Secret" aside, where is all this anti-success rhetoric in some of the above comments coming from?

Figuring out how to make a living and how to put one's kids through college are at the heart of the majority of ordinary people's lives. I think any spirituality that doesn't support that is going to have limited use at best.

We may dislike "The Secret", but let's dislike it because if it's misleading and ineffective, not because it promotes success. Most people who embrace "The Secret", or of the other more solid "self-help" methods, are just trying to make a living and make life better for their children.

Bob Weisenberg
http://YogaDemystified.com

]]> By: Bob Weisenberg http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/01/we-here-at-elephant-have-been-huge-fans-of-the-transformative-power-of-the-secret-burp/comment-page-1/#comment-28599 Bob Weisenberg Thu, 07 Jan 2010 23:14:19 +0000 http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=36397#comment-28599 Upon further reflection, I think your last sentence above, "So imagining our way into happiness is, ultimately...not sustainable" is wrong. I think many people imagine their way into both happiness and success. "Imagining is not the same as "self-deception" which is perhaps what you meant. I think it's the quality and results of the imagining that determine it's value, not its literal truth. For example, literal (as opposed to metaphorical) reincarnation, which to me personally is imagining, is a very positive force in my Buddhists' lives. So I wouldn't try to talk them out of it, even though for me it would be self-deception. One person's reality is another person's imagining or self-deception. Bob Weisenberg <a href="http://YogaDemystified.com" target="_blank">http://YogaDemystified.com</a> Upon further reflection, I think your last sentence above, "So imagining our way into happiness is, ultimately…not sustainable" is wrong. I think many people imagine their way into both happiness and success.

"Imagining is not the same as "self-deception" which is perhaps what you meant. I think it's the quality and results of the imagining that determine it's value, not its literal truth. For example, literal (as opposed to metaphorical) reincarnation, which to me personally is imagining, is a very positive force in my Buddhists' lives. So I wouldn't try to talk them out of it, even though for me it would be self-deception.

One person's reality is another person's imagining or self-deception.

Bob Weisenberg
http://YogaDemystified.com

]]> By: Bob Weisenberg http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/01/we-here-at-elephant-have-been-huge-fans-of-the-transformative-power-of-the-secret-burp/comment-page-1/#comment-28578 Bob Weisenberg Thu, 07 Jan 2010 19:36:53 +0000 http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=36397#comment-28578 I was referring to Buddhism as an organized religion, not pure Buddhist thought, which strikes me as very different. I was referring to Buddhism as an organized religion, not pure Buddhist thought, which strikes me as very different.

]]> By: Bob Weisenberg http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/01/we-here-at-elephant-have-been-huge-fans-of-the-transformative-power-of-the-secret-burp/comment-page-1/#comment-28575 Bob Weisenberg Thu, 07 Jan 2010 19:27:40 +0000 http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=36397#comment-28575 Forgot to mention that I haven't read "The Secret". I only know it through Oprah and lots of reviews. If I did read the book, my personal opinion would probably be consistent with the "critique mentioned by Duff" by longhorn24, which goes into some detail about how empty and manipulative the book is. But I've learned to appreciate anything that helps people make something of their lives, even if it's not my cup of tea. Bob Weisenberg <a href="http://YogaDemystified.com" target="_blank">http://YogaDemystified.com</a> Forgot to mention that I haven't read "The Secret". I only know it through Oprah and lots of reviews.

If I did read the book, my personal opinion would probably be consistent with the "critique mentioned by Duff" by longhorn24, which goes into some detail about how empty and manipulative the book is.

But I've learned to appreciate anything that helps people make something of their lives, even if it's not my cup of tea.

Bob Weisenberg
http://YogaDemystified.com

]]> By: elephantjournal http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/01/we-here-at-elephant-have-been-huge-fans-of-the-transformative-power-of-the-secret-burp/comment-page-1/#comment-28574 elephantjournal Thu, 07 Jan 2010 19:22:05 +0000 http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=36397#comment-28574 Well, it's very different from Buddhism, which holds that negative thoughts are bad, but that positive thoughts are, while less bad, still thoughts. The point is not to "not think," but if we have a clear mind, heart, we see reality just as it is, or are one with reality, rather, and that's the highest form of happiness, and spiritual and temporal success, it's a state of bliss, freedom from suffering, it's generosity and compassion! So imagining our way into happiness is, ultimately, Spiritual Atkins. Not sustainable. Well, it's very different from Buddhism, which holds that negative thoughts are bad, but that positive thoughts are, while less bad, still thoughts. The point is not to "not think," but if we have a clear mind, heart, we see reality just as it is, or are one with reality, rather, and that's the highest form of happiness, and spiritual and temporal success, it's a state of bliss, freedom from suffering, it's generosity and compassion!

So imagining our way into happiness is, ultimately, Spiritual Atkins. Not sustainable.

]]> By: elephantjournal http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/01/we-here-at-elephant-have-been-huge-fans-of-the-transformative-power-of-the-secret-burp/comment-page-1/#comment-28572 elephantjournal Thu, 07 Jan 2010 19:19:39 +0000 http://www.elephantjournal.com/?p=36397#comment-28572 As Trungpa Rinpoche used to say, Buddhas are farmers, Buddhas are plumbers, you never know where you'll find a Buddha. That said, right, I don't know that I know any enlightened beings! As Trungpa Rinpoche used to say, Buddhas are farmers, Buddhas are plumbers, you never know where you'll find a Buddha. That said, right, I don't know that I know any enlightened beings!

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