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Hunting With Dick Cheney. ~ Bill Schwartz
“A view to hold, a person with a theory, all of this is just conceptual activity.” Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche
Some old business to address: It was brought to my attention by an elephant journal reader that my last article failed (gasp) to make a single reference to a woman (I have in previous articles, but not that last one).
Well, Helen, it’s a popular meme, and unfortunately you didn’t elaborate other than to state that you simply wanted to note your observation and allow us to draw what to you is an obvious conclusion. I apologize for my lack of political correctness.
That being said, to just leave an argument to be argued is like a lawyer handing Dick Cheney a loaded shotgun and saying “Want to shoot some [defenseless] birds?” You raised an important point worth discussing, but didn’t finish it.
Like my heartless buddy Dick, I shoot what I want to shoot and not always what I’m aiming at, so I’ll simply respond to my own observation of your comment and state what is obvious to me regarding the subject of sexism in Tibetan Buddhism.
I can’t speak about the introduction of Tibetan Buddhism to Boulder by Chögyam Trungpa Rinnpoche. I can speak about Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche and how he brought the Karma Kagyu lineage to Chicago, because I was there.
One male teacher sleeps with his female students in the 1970s (hey, everybody was sleeping with everybody back then) and case closed? I think not. It wasn’t like that at all with my guru and our sangha [Budhist community] here on the shores of Lake Oprah at least. Obviously, you have never met Lama Colleen Reed, the original gangsta responsible for establishing the Karma Kagyu lineage in Chicago. Perhaps I shouldn’t mention that I met Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche in her kitchen, but I can’t resist.
The fact is, one of the original Living-Room sanghas (inspired by the Dharma activity of His Holiness the 16th Karmapa in North America) was founded and run (until she went into retreat in 1996) by a woman.
Enough said on the subject.
In other news, my defibrillator isn’t powering up so don’t worry, getting worked up over nothing is a pastime of mine. More than 30 years on the meditation cushion and I still can’t resist a good argument; we don’t become better people [through meditation] but simply become more comfortable with who we already are. [highlight by editor] The nurse (not a woman but a young man of color; is that politically correct enough for you?) said to me “have fun with your new toy” when I was discharged from the hospital, but I had no idea.
It’s like having a paramedic implanted in your chest.
The other morning before leaving for work, my wife checked if I was still breathing. “Bill! Are you okay?” I had to remind her that she doesn’t have to worry about that any more; when I go it will be with a shock (clear!) and not a flop.
For all you Dharma Brats out there with baby boomer parents freaked by the idea of an ICD (implantable cardioverter defibrillator) tell them just to go for it.
I haven’t had this much fun with a toy since Mattel came out with Hot Wheels in 1968.
From the Great Northwest (not big on Dick Cheney) and an elephant journal reader, Tyler Dewar (@tylerdewar on Twitter) suggested that I share some of the tricks I’ve learned as a Tibetan Buddhist who (against Tibetan Buddhist convention) tweets way too much. At first I mistakenly thought Tyler wanted me to write a real article instead of this stuff that I write for Waylon’s entertainment. The last thing I want is a call from the home office in New York reminding me to keep to the peanut gallery.
That being said, a number of people have asked: How did I survive the Great War I wrote of in “Welcome to Twitter Hell” (ranked “most commented” on EJ)? Cover your eyes and ears, Helen (sexist statement to follow); I don’t fight like a girl, in a nutshell. Here’s the secret: Better to be attacked by a group of people than by one. Take your lumps and respond politely. Then, take out the enabler when she (PC enough?) tweets something that shouldn’t be tweeted, that is, the person it is (rarely the leader) who is validating the mob’s behavior.
Once she apologizes for her inappropriate (or defamatory and/or inflammatory) Tweet, it’s over. Such inappropriate online behavior presumes that it’s obvious they are right and you are wrong. Interestingly, it’s the same reason that George W. Bush can’t apologize for invading Iraq based on a lie. Otherwise, as when girls fight, there will be no end to the hair-pulling and backbiting (add Jell-O and it could be Waylon’s dream fundraiser, Boulder—Politically Incorrect); find the mob’s Dick Cheney of the march to war and take her down.
As the 1st Karmapa Dusum Khyenpa put it, “To see the mountain on the other side, you must look at the mountain on this side.” When on Twitter we aren’t on the other side of the mountain. Keep your eye on the high ground and keep climbing.
Bottom line: If you aren’t laughing while you tweet you’re doing it wrong in my experience. Just enjoy the view on the way up the mountain and constantly remind yourself that both sides are of the same mountain.
Hey Bill,
Oooooh, I don't feel so comfortable with those comments about girls!!! I know a lot is missed when you don't have tone of voice to complement the delivery, etc., but … eeeeeek!!!!! Not comfortable, man! It's…. umm….. International Women's Day today too….
Eeeek.
(?) 
Tyler
Tyler,
Back on same page with Elephant Journal. To suggest that Tibetan Buddhism is sexist can be argued but that hasn't been my experience.
Has post feminism not reached the great Northwest? Men don't have to walk around with their tails between their legs anymore (not that I ever did) of course.
You can say "fight like girls" in the 21st century; women know what that means. They know themselves how they fight and the disadvantage they put themselves at in this regard.
I wish Obama had Hilary's balls. Dick Cheney would be in jail, we would have a regulated Wall Street, and universal health care instead of what we have today.
International women's day? LOL, Give me a break. Do I look like someone that gives a rat's ass about what anyone thinks about me (other than my guru)?
I've been dealing with feminists my entire life,marched for the ERA in the 1970's in college, and supported the cause until men began to respond like a bunch of scared cats and have taken the politically incorrect route ever since.
I even married a feminist that is our household's primary source of income, much to the chagrin to her feminist friends who believe (when push come to shove) that a man shouldn't be supported by a successful wife.
If it was the other way around and I was a successful professional (which I'm not) I'd gladly support my wife rather than have her doing something she doesn't want to do with her life.
The days of quotas, counting mentions of women in articles, are over. That might have made a nice thesis in 1979, "Sexism in Tibetan Buddhism" but not any more my friend.
Anyway, though tongue in cheek, Waylon really likes articles that generate comments, the more heated the better, and that's what I wrote for him. I'm not afraid to be politically incorrect. I don't fight like a girl.
Bill
Thanks for your reply, Bill. I think it's clear you have a strong, good heart toward all beings. I think some of the dissonance I experienced with the girl comments was due to different ways we use language. I do think the dude vibe of Tibetan Buddhism is an issue and that certain forms of patriarchy persist in Buddhist traditions, and that they will continue to be dismantled. The 17th Karmapa commented on this in Seattle–he said that for centuries men took statements about women from the teachings out of context and used them to beat women over the head. He said he couldn't speak authoritatively about the West because of his lack of familiarity, but he said in the East there is still patriarchy in Buddhism and that it needs transformation. Karmapa is BIG on women and girls (advocating for them), as you may know. I'm very excited to see how this will become a part of his presentation on the world stage.
Keep writing!
In Trungpa Rinpoche's sangha, growing up, my personal experience was that women were leaders, my mom rocked my world, here's a good lady to check out for more on Tibetan Buddhism and Feminism http://www.elephantjournal.com/2008/03/dr-judith/
(also Rita Gross, google her)
Great interview, I'm definitely casting Conan O'brien to play you in my movie.
Tyler,
Sorry for delay in response, been sleeping a lot since last surgery. In the East as a whole there is a definitely a problem with sexism based on their own cultural bias. A woman friend went to China on business trip and was treated like second class citizen by Asian men she encountered.
We have our own issues specific to the Karma Kagyu in this country obviously but one of them is not sexism in my experience at the grass roots level I've spent my life at.
As cited here elsewhere one of the most formidable lineage holder I have ever had the privilege to meet is Khandro Rinpoche, a woman, the reincarnation of the dakini of Tsurphu; obviously there is no glass ceiling preventing women from the pinnacle of authority in our lineage.
If there are women that feel they have been marginalized or taken advantage of in the Karma Kagyu I want to know about it; I have zero tolerance for such behavior. On the other hand we have this meme out there about Tibetan Buddhism that we are sexists which is a load of crap.
As you can personally attest to that isn't how the Karmapa rolls and neither do his followers. I too look forward to His Holiness making his presence known on the world stage in the future. I've been waiting since 1981 (Karmapa same age as my youngest son) and hope to see him return to Chicago to celebrate 16th's parinirvana here (nudge, nudge, if subject comes up).
Bill
Holy cripes, keep trying to edit this down since it sez it's too long, so putting it as a two part series
Went and read the other article, and this one, and as a taoist feminist my opinion may be both irrelevant and annoying but it was asked for, and I love giving my opinions :p BTW thatt article does mention a woman, it mentions the wife.
It's a personal article about a personal topic. My little blog is often about parenting, many posts only mention other moms, even though dads are as much parents as moms. Just happens that I relate most to the moms, they're who I hang with most often. So his article was personal, my feminist spidey senses weren't pinged for the ommission of women mentioned.
Recently found this sweet book in a thrift store http://www.amazon.com/Women-Wisdom-Tsultrim-Allio... and loaned it to a friend who said it's AMAZING. Seems there is a fair amount of sexism in the Tibetan Buddhist scene, resulting in the ommission of many valuable female voices in texts and such. Perhaps Helen is observing this, hoping this site could not continue with this ommission. Perhaps this site needs more female voices, as the book indicates that female voices directly from Tibet are infrequent, despite people wanting to hear them, to learn from them. I don't see why that article needed to mention women, but I also do hear that people want to hear more about women in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition.
My title was changed to something article not about. It was tongue in cheek. From the outside of Tibetan Buddhism I'm sure it may appear that their is a fair amount of sexism in Tibetan Buddhism. As an insider the notion is laughable of course.
Is there sexism in publishing? My wife is a book editor for major publisher. I agree with you in that regard. Ours is an oral tradition with women well represented both throughout history and in dharma centers today in my experience here in Chicago.
Bill
Should a writer feel obligated to mention everyone everytime they write an article? Probably not. Is it worth pondering for a moment, that what you thought was a non issue to insiders within Tibetan Buddhism, might be an issue? Perhaps, if you find value in exploring the things you don't know about. I found value in exploring it anyways. Thanks to both you and Helen, for providing me with an interesting topic, in which I also learned that Tibet has a strong matriarchal history as well, one of the most modern matriarchal societies that I'm familiar with, cool. But, seems there are a good number of Tibetan Buddhists looking to bring more women into the higher levels of Buddhist teaching, and that this change is being supported and is in the works. Gotta love a religion that can be ancient, yet still flexible!
As for the big girl panties, is there a dress code here? Underwear not optional?
My step father was Scottish (Glasgow) and I wear a kilt so I always go commando. Not only is Tibetan society matriarchal, and the dharma was established in Chicago by a woman, at least in the Midwest, both the Ann Arbor, MI and Columbus, OH affiliate centers were founded by women.
When I told my wife, a feminist, and book editor for major publisher that my original title was changed to sexism in Tibetan Buddhism and that instead of (as requested) using a picture of Dick Cheney smirking (an utterly ridiculous picture of a hunter rendered in clay was used) she was livid.
Most important, for centuries the Karma Kagyu has recognized woman reincarnations, thus breaking the glass ceiling before women even had the right to vote in America. Khandro Rinpoche, a woman, is one of our most highly regarded teachers in our lineage.
Pema Chodron, a woman, a trailblazer in bringing the Karma Kagyu like gang busters into the world of mainstream publishing (also abbot of monastery…). I could write all day about the role of women in my tradition, but afraid comment won't post.
Bill
Did someone just chop off the first half of my reply there? Hmmm. censored!
No censorship here. Long comments sometimes get waitlisted by Intense Debate, the company which creates this comment forum.
aha! It showed at first, which is why I thought it got chopped. anyways, it was supposed to be the first half of the above "Should a writer " etc post. Thanks
Bill,
I'm not sure the person you're referring to is climbing the same mountain, in fact I think they may be unaware they're living on a different planet.
Napora said without the 'right view,' one is on a delusional path. Without a person to show us the proper way, one is blind. Without the right support, we'll never reach our destination.
There's a lot of misguided souls out there…
LOL, wife feminist and didn't edit out of copy submitted. Time for the big girl panties, welcome to post-feminism my friend. Title changed by editor and stupid picture on top totally ruining what otherwise was a humorous piece. I submitted a professionally shot picture of myself and this is what I get? Very disappointing I'm afraid. At least comments work. People have tried and complained that won't let them post. Very unhappy contributor indeed.
I commented via twitter that I loved this, but 140 characters wasn't enough. I'm just not hit with blatant sexism here. I think if that's what you were going for you need to try harder
. (kidding of course) I say great article, but maybe that's because, even though I possess all the proper lady parts, I don't fight like a girl either. Although there is a tiny girl part of me is wondering if there is something wrong with me, that I laughed really loudly instead of being offended. Maybe it was just that you won me over at the opening reference to Cheney. So Tyler_Dewar, don’t feel uncomfortable on my part (and I’m acting for “girls” everywhere, because I say I am), this dharma brat can handle Bill’s heat!
Tyler is Canadian and still listens to Bachman Turner Overdrive on eight track cassettes when not singing the ballads of Gordon Lightfoot. Allowances must be made for being from the great white north. Post-feminism is more of an urban south of the border phenomena.
My wife and editor is an original member of NOW and fought for the rights of Women her entire life. When she edited my submission she laughed out loud at what she was reading. We are so beyond counting references to women in articles that to suggest otherwise is a joke.
Today women can be their own women without fear of being told they look attractive(or not attractive) by their boss without a second thought. Yet men can't be the men they are without suffering for being who they are (something I have always fought for). I'm a man, I'm here, get used to it! Glad you enjoyed.
Bill
You're right "about" the Gordon Lightfoot part.
Tyler,
LOL, I forgot you play guitar. You're too young to remember Bachman Turner Overdrive.
Bill
You made a lot of valid points here. one of which, I am constantly reminded or lectured to concerning Tibetan Buddhism being sexist by its very nature. To which I often reply, "that's all right — I consider myself a sexless being." I'm sure there are things in my daily life that I respond to from a female point of view, but there are also things I respond to from a male point of view. The entire problem with all of this is the use of labels! I find those that are not in tune with who they really are having incessant need of defining everybody and everything by a label.
Just as we must remember that indeed we are both sides of the mountain we must also remember that others will not act as we wish them to. I myself have a bad habit of being upset by stupidity most often when someone is calling me some sort of name,IE-a label, Raising my blood pressure to a point it should not be raised to. This happens especially when I am on twitter and get attacked for something I have shared. But I am never attacked for being a female — a lesbian, yes — but not just for the mere fact that I have working girl parts.
The point I think I'm trying to make here is that labels are nothing more than shallow attempts by the user to define themselves by attempting to define me. It does not work, it is futile, and I have very few years left and consciously make the choice not to engage these name-calling ghosts that hide behind their keyboard.
As always I bid you all peace @1txsage1957
Leslie,
I have congestive heart failure and I'm dying so this is me doing my do not go gentle into the night bit. I agree with you totally about labels and the comments of anonymous internet trolls otherwise.
Regarding Tibetan Buddhism being sexist meme, I'll fight that one to my last breath. I get why non-Tibetan Buddhists presume such. The international face of Tibetan Buddhism is a Gelugpa (one of many lineages of Tibetan Buddhism) which is primarily known for its monasticism.
Furthermore, for centuries as head of the Tibetan Government His Holiness owns all the problems we of a leftist orientation (1970's campus Maoist myself) despise Tibetan Buddhism (feudalism, opiate of the masses…) for as a religion. As a life long Tibetan Buddhism I have critiqued the Shangri-la approach of my fellow Tibetan Buddhism tooth and nail.
The one problem we don't have in Tibetan Buddhism in this country is sexism of all things. Contrary to popular opinion we aren't a religion of monastics. When missionaries attempted to establish Indian-style (totally sexist) monasticism in Tibet they failed miserably given the matriarchal nature of Tibetan society.
It took an Indian mahasiddha (non-monastic) Padmasambhava to finally establish Buddhism in Tibet by taking a local woman as his partner according to local custom, Yeshe Tsogyal. Only later, when the Mongols invaded Tibet and killed all the non-monastics was Tibet reconstituted as a religious state headed by Monastics as it remained up to the 1959 collapse of that form of government when the Chinese Communists incorporated a never free Tibet into China.
Bill
Re-reading my first comment I think I sounded as if I believed that Tibetan Buddhism is sexist. That is not my belief at all. I simply choose not to argue the point with those who seek argument- thus my comment about being sexless-disarming their premise.
Tibetan Buddhism – on its face sexist? Naw! But deep in its psyche, folded within its tantric belly? hmmmm — likely. Bears some research.
Snowdrop,
Of our many issues, the Karma Kagyu lineage in North America, definitely not sexist (research away). More psychiatrists in any given year are charged with sexually abusing woman than there has ever been allegations made against a lineage holder of Tibetan Buddhism.
In the Tantric/Yoga world of self proclaimed gurus I suspect (as outsider) sexism and abuse is the norm but not Tibetan Buddhism I can assure you, that's not how we roll. There are exceptions, unfortunately, of inappropriate behavior in some lineages but since the 1970's we have been scandal free for the most part.
Bill
One thing I like about you Bill is that you are extremely honest.. straight to the [point…But is there sexism in Buddhism,?,probably..But as Tyler-Dewar said in his reply..It is working its way out and the the misinterpreted traditions of old are being seen in a new light.As for Christianity ..it has sexism running all through it,not to mention every other kind of ism,,,,And we all know that Islam is incredibly sexist…Even though I think Mohammed's take on this was appropriate for the times ..But he has been also misinterpreted by the Imam's of that Faith for control purposes…Whoaaaaa…Gonna Piss off the whole Muslim Nation with that statement…But It's True..I have always said that their concern and hatred for the west has a lot to do with the Vagina factor..They want to control the vagina's…A free women scares the hell out of them.
With that said….I have realized that if women or gays or Blacks etc..want to really instigate change,they would take out the anger ,the contempt and the pure meanness,when they want to enlighten someone on the Equality of All People.I know it may not seem to long….But in the last 170 yrs or so..The Women's movement has made incredible advances ,stating with the Bahai women who had their throats cut ,for taking their veil's off.To the right to vote at the turn of the last century ,to the current freedom of this young lady ,that wanted to make aware to Bill,what to her ,was him being sexist for not including women in his wonderful article…..Really…You could find countless examples of this in every article that doesn't measure up to what she thinks everyone should assume.
There is never a reason to attack anyone to me…You can help them to understand your position ,and I don't think Bill would mind that…It is an innocent thing here….Bill's concern is for all people to realize their True Nature…including women….
So, sexism in Buddhism is "misinterpretation" of the perfect Dharma while sexism in other traditions is inherent?
Spoken like a true fundamentalist.
A fundamentalist I am not….All I was saying is that at least in Buddhism, discrimination of women was not a major theme that was used to suppress women..where as in Christianity & Islam ,they made the subjugation of women an act of God…and it wasn't……an there again…helping some one to see another aspect to a particular point ,can be done in a gentle manner…..I may not be correct in some of my points…I am willing to understand…and I am sorry if I offended you…I meant no harm….
A little research is always useful if one wishes to be a part of the solution & not the problem. Buddhism is a reflection of whatever culture it finds itself and "post feminism" will arise when there is equality & human rights for all. I find it useful to look at the content of our conditioning as an impersonal & non reactive study and part of practice. Here's an interesting piece of research amongst many available –
http://www.kushan.org/reviews/courtesansandtantri...
Courtesans and Tantric Consorts – Serinity Young
If there is a thesis in this complicated set of readings it is the unrelenting subordination of women. Again and again Young is able to show how male authors marginalize women, transforming apparent heroines into objects and exceptionalising the most remarkable women so that their achievements do not reflect on women in general, and cannot therefore pose a threat to cultural beliefs in male superiority. So for example, in discussing the courtesans of the historical Buddha's palace, or the attempt of Mara's daughters to seduce the Buddha, Young's careful reading shows how these are far from the active female presence they first appear.
'… when they try to tempt the Buddha on the night of enlightenment, like the women of the harem, they do not act of their own volition, but are instructed by their father, Mara. These texts tell us not so much about women being sexual temptresses as women being under the control of men, as being part of the sexual economy of their time. In actuality these scenes are about two powerful males who want to deter the Buddha – the Buddha's father and Mara – and their sexual use of dependent women as their tools.' (13)
Young devotes a lot of space to Tantric consorts and sex change stories. These two themes, the first a feature of Tibetan Buddhism and the second more universal, are at first glance liberating to women. The sexual union involved in the yab-yum pairing between Tantric practitioner and consort appears to give women an equal place as partners in spiritual enlightenment. However, Young shows convincingly that in fact the woman does not act as a partner, but rather as a tool whose powers the male practitioner co-opts to advance his own enlightenment (a theme which recurs in a number of her analysis). Likewise, sex change is transformed from an apparently liberating activity to a subordinating one by the authors. The idea that gender was fluid, or meaningless, is part of the Buddhist idea that all phenomenon are illusory, and therefore irrelevant. This apparently places women on an equal spiritual footing with men. Unfortunately the practice is somewhat different, Young gives two stories of women as illustration, those of Candrottara and Sumati (196-7). Both women are challenged that they cannot achieve enlightenment as they are women and both respond with defenses based on the Buddhist doctrine of emptiness, that gender is merely an illusion. The text almost immediately tips this defense on its head, as they two women for their eloquence by being transformed into men. If the doctrine is valid for gender there is no reason for them to be transformed, if the transformation is genuinely a boon, the doctrine is clearly invalid when applied to gender.
'The wisest teaching of Buddhism say that one must move beyond gender, beyond all dualities, but its rhetoric in texts, iconography, and ritual demonstrates an urge to co-opt and control creative female powers that ends up diminishing women and exalting men … Changes need to be made that acknowledge past excesses and that create a future in which both women and men can pursue enlightenment free from false views about what it means to be gendered.' (232)
"Freed from false views" on all levels – eh?
Joyce
Thank you Joyce…This is a very enlightening response…And it was done in a gentle and helping way…Right I should have done more research …Good lesson to learn…But I do not think that Bill or I were intently trying to degrade women…There is so much to learn on this..and it is Time that we knowledge the past ignorance and reach out to help each other to begin to live this wonderful reality…".Women and Men are like the wings of a bird…unless they are both equal… Man can not fly…."{Bahai Writingsa Womans}…..Your response is what we need ..an enlighten sharing of a Woman"s view…..and Thats all I was saying
Joyce,
I'm but a mere mantra mumbling yak herder by comparison to your knowledge of textual analysis of texts I am obviously woefully unprepared to discuss.
All that I know of the dharma is the instructions of my guru. Our focus has always been what I need to know to face the death I am now in final preparation to meet.
I can only speak from my personal experience as one of a handful of people that helped in my small way to introduce the Karma Kagyu to this country some thirty years ago.
Although I was introduced to my guru by a woman I've never encountered that which you speak of regarding women somehow.
Does it exist? How so? Where can I find it other than in a book? It all sounds quite fascinating. I apologize for not being as well read on the subject as you obviously are.
I have listened to the teachings of Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche on the subject of "The progressive stages of meditation on emptiness" and contemplated its meaning since 1985.
He taught on the subject here, in the apartment downstairs that served as KTC Chicago's shrine room back in the early days of Tibetan Buddhism in the "living room" sangha days of the Karma Kagyu lineage.
I unfortunately have not attained the accomplishment of this profound teaching but I am well versed in the discussion of the subject based on my experience in this regard.
I can assure you that the "wisest" teachings of the Buddha says nothing regarding gender as the author you quote apparently believes they do.
Obviously, there is a difference between the experiences of someone that has practiced their entire life with lineage holders of Tibetan Buddhism and someone writing a book on the subject.
I've never met Serenity Young and know nothing of her background in the dharma so I'm hesitant to criticize her based on a quote from her book on a subject I am ignorant of.
That being said, it sounds like a load of crap, to be totally honest with you Joyce. I was trained to be a scholar as a kid in college and I would give it a failing grade I'm afraid.
It reads like the same old feminist gibberish I had to contend with in academia that only saw the light of day because of the political necessity of having women where none were before.
Thankfully, I never pursued a career in academia in no small part because of the necessity of political correctness of which I am obviously incapable of being intimidated into observing as a white male baby boomer.
I'm not someone to be pushed around regardless of the identity of the person pushing me, whether a Chicago cop or a feminist who sees male oppression in some books she read.
No doubt there is much of such shoddy argumentation written by those outside of Tibetan Buddhism on the subject of gender inequality in Tibetan Buddhism.
All I can say is trust your experience. Does your guru marginalize you as a disciple based on your gender? Are you marginalized in your sangha for being a women? I think not, if you are Karma Kagyu.
Bill
Parkstepp,
My friend, I was in no way offended. I assure you (you would know). I'm simply ignorant regarding the study of religions unfortunately.
I grew up thinking "Protestant" meant that you didn't have to go to church but got to stay home on Sunday and drink beer and watch football like father did while mother dragged us to Catholic Mass every week.
I've never met a subjugated woman either for that part. All the women I've ever known in my life have been their own people so I have no reference point in this regard either.
I apologize for the shortness of my response to your comment. I was simply embarrassed by not understanding what you were talking about I'm afraid.
Bill
Parkstepp,
Just realized your comment about being offended was directed not to me but to a message board troll that accused you of being a fundamentalist.
For future reference, never apologize to a comment jockey on the internet simply trying to be provocative but instead, like Dick Cheney shoot what you want to and not what you aim at.
I do, and have with the individual in question, in this comment thread. Just aim for the defenseless birdie and empty both barrels in their face and deny anything ever happened.
Bill
Bill
Parkstepp,
I'm familiar only with the Karma Kagyu (in Chicago in particular) in regards to the role of women. I don't know enough about most of your references unfortunately regarding other religious traditions and women. I do appreciate your taking the time to craft such a thoughtful comment though. Thank you.
Bill
Before the Chinese invaded, the Tibetan Buddhists ran a first class absolute theocracy with an aristocracy of people (all of them male) who were proclaimed holier (i.e. His Holiness) than everybody else by birth.
How could feminists or any other progressives have any problem with that?
Yoga for cynics,
Long before the establishment of the theocratic dominance of the Gelug monasticism by Mongol invaders and the slaughter of it local leaders Buddhism flourished in all its diversity, of which you seem unfamiliar unfortunately. Like a feminist though I note your ability to jump to irrational conclusions based on gender alone despite traditional Tibetan society being matriarchal.society. Who cares what a feminist thinks anyway? Welcome to the 21st century my friend, the era of post-feminism, when men can be men and women can be women without judgment for being so. Thank you for your, well, interesting comment.
Bill
Wow, YogaforCynics, you're reading right out of the Communist playbook.
Waylon,
I look forward to response from YogaForCynics, must be practicing one of those asanas (the one where you stick your head up your ass)I'm afraid. Damn Hippy!
I was a Commie Maoist in the 70's and sympathetic to critique of post-Mongol invasion period in Tibet when they killed all the local rulers and made Dalai Lama ruler of Tibet.
To attempt to bootstrap that period of Tibet's tragic history into an argument that Tibetan Buddhism today is sexist doesn't pass the laugh test as far as I'm concerned..
I hope somebody out there has an argument better than the number of times a woman is mentioned or a few centuries of theocratic feudalism out of power since 1959 to argue that Tibetan Buddhism is sexist.
Unfortunately, you can't start with a conclusion you find obvious, and expect everyone to click their heels to political correctness like most men do these days (for fear of how women may respond).
Bill
I think whenever a tradition with millenia (plural) of history runs into modern society – then sparks will fly (as Chogyam Trungpa famously said). That said, one thing that I have always liked about Buddhism is the embrace of modernity (in my experience in the 90s to today). You can Twitter with the Dalai Lama and Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche. I'm a "fan" of the Karmapa on Facebook and can download MP3's of the Kagyu Monlam Chenmo – Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche has a fantastic new book charting the intersection of Buddhism and neuroscience.
My feminist wife and I both have always felt good about gender equity in Tibetan Buddhism. Of the past 3 dharma events I attended – 2 were led by female lamas. The Dalai Lama even commented recently that he could, and even possibly should, reincarnate as a female – (can you imagine a female Pope?).
John,
Thank you for sharing your experience (and that of your wife's) with Tibetan Buddhism as it is practiced in this country today. One of my teachers, Bardor Tulku Rinpoche, a male, is considered to be the reincarnation of Yeshe Tsogyal, a female. When asked how this is possible, Rinpoche laughs, and asks what's the difference? Obviously, in Tibetan Buddhism we don't think like that. You have to learn to discriminate and such discrimination is not part of our tradition.
As baby boomer that remembers a time when all woman were housewives (whether they wanted to be something other) and all men worked to support their wives and children (when one income sufficed to do so, hard to believe) I had to learn in the 1970's that women were in fact the equal of men I must confess (the burden of my generation I'm afraid). My elderly mother married my father at 18 years of age, never worked a day in her life outside of the home, and though more than intelligent enough to attend college such an option was unthinkable in her time.
It really sucked being a woman in this country back then, but not for my older sister, which demonstrates how rapidly our world has changed since those days. My daughter, a feminist, both has a career and a family (a career being an economic necessity these days and not a choice). My wife, also a feminist, since I'm too sick to work (congestive heart failure) thankfully is a managing editor at a major "legacy" publisher and our sole source of income. I may not be a feminist or even sympathetic to the cause as a middle-aged white male no doubt, but I am who I am, without apologies for my political incorrectness.
If any women readers have a problem with that, bring it on, just make sure you're wearing your big girl panties because I'll argue until the cows come home if they want to argue that Tibetan Buddhism is sexist. I'm a life long Karma Kagyu and have never once seen a woman marginalized for her gender and challenge any feminist to provide me with an instance in which such an offense has been inflicted upon themselves in their own experience as a Tibetan Buddhist. That simply isn't how we roll. It's unthinkable.
Bill
My post that provided three links of Tibetan Buddhist "insiders" working for women's progress within the religious ranks is still not here, it showed right after I posted it and disappeared which is why i assumed it was censored. I'll retype the research I did if I have to, but if it's hiding in a spam folder putting it up here would be easier than me refinding and retyping the links.
It wass the first half of my above reply that begins with "Should a writer feel obligated to mention" Since intense debate is allowed here, be nice if posts were allowed to be longer!
Elephant Journal does not censor comments. I'm assured Intense Debate working on problem (via support@intensedebate.com). Again, Elephant Journal isn't censoring your comments. If you have any thoughts on what is happening (I'm not a technical person) please forward them to the above noted support email for IntenseDebate. I haven't a clue why this is happening but you are not alone in having problems posting comments and it is driving me up the wall as a contributor here. Your patience is appreciated, and if you have any to spare please send some my way because mine is running thin at the moment.
Bill
Ah shitski i don't wanna stress you out, that's for sure. Well, if it's not coming up I'll retype some similar version of it later tonight.
ps.s. just retired my blog, new handle which actually an old handle is now soundhunter
Soundhunter,
Can definitely do without the stress I'm afraid. I don't know what happened this week with the comments but I apologize for the aggravation.Confident Waylon and Intense debate doing their best to sort the problem out.Thank you for your patience.
Bill
When you consider these articles, after having read all three of them, you could consider why someone would note an absence of women in an article listing the writer's perception of the "who's who" in Tibetan Buddhism. If I had more characters to write with here without worrying about my post disappearing into some intensedebate spam folder I'd quote myself from my other replies above, which is just to show that someone who is aware of the kinds of discussions I link to would observe the lack of women in posts, and one could have understanding, and compassion for her perspective rather than laughing at it and mocking it.
ElephantJournal needs a spellchecker, if not an editor. Also, can I get some Dharma with this, well, whatever this is?
Hack,
May I be of assistance, do you want your McBuddhism for here or to go? I'm sorry we're out of the plastic Zennist nihilist troll action figure (you comment like a collector).
Bill
Bill
LOL. Wow. I've been trumped! Seriously, Bill, I meant no offense–it just seems that this EJ thread seems like a diary of some personal flamewar that could take place on someone's personal blog. But maybe I've misunderstood and that's what this is. Also, a proofreading system would be a great addition to EJ, no?
Don't get me wrong, I love most of the articles on EJ, but sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be better if articles were a little less "stream of consciousness" and more thoughtful (and edited). But some of the immediacy would be lost. I can't help but wonder if that wouldn't be a good thing.
Anyway, apologies if anyone was offended. Nihilist Troll . . . out! Best wishes, Bill. Seriously.
Like a true Zennist nihilist troll, I just skimmed this one and read the last line:
"Bottom line: If you aren’t laughing while you tweet you’re doing it wrong in my experience. Just enjoy the view on the way up the mountain and constantly remind yourself that both sides are of the same mountain."
I love it! I don't laugh harder then when I am tweeting. It is at times the highlight of some stressful days…and I learn something from it to boot!
Is it just me or is Bill getting sexier and sexier after every post?
Cheers,
John
http://www.zendirtzendust.com
Like a true Zennist nihilist troll, I just skimmed this one and read the last line:
"Bottom line: If you aren’t laughing while you tweet you’re doing it wrong in my experience. Just enjoy the view on the way up the mountain and constantly remind yourself that both sides are of the same mountain."
I love it! I don't laugh harder then when I am tweeting. It is at times the highlight of some stressful days…and I learn something from it to boot!
Is it just me or is Bill getting sexier and sexier after every post?
Cheers,
John
http://www.zendirtzendust.com
Like a true Zennist nihilist troll, I just skimmed this one and read the last line:
"Bottom line: If you aren’t laughing while you tweet you’re doing it wrong in my experience. Just enjoy the view on the way up the mountain and constantly remind yourself that both sides are of the same mountain."
I love it! I don't laugh harder then when I am tweeting. It is at times the highlight of some stressful days…and I learn something from it to boot!
Is it just me or is Bill getting sexier and sexier after every post?
Cheers,
John
http://www.zendirtzendust.com
Like a true Zennist nihilist troll, I just skimmed this one and read the last line:
"Bottom line: If you aren’t laughing while you tweet you’re doing it wrong in my experience. Just enjoy the view on the way up the mountain and constantly remind yourself that both sides are of the same mountain."
I love it! I don't laugh harder then when I am tweeting. It is at times the highlight of some stressful days…and I learn something from it to boot!
Is it just me or is Bill getting sexier and sexier after every post?
Cheers,
John
http://www.zendirtzendust.com
John,
May be a shadow of myself physically but I still love to mix it up on the internet; it's such a hoot. And laughing all the way. How can you take tweeting serious? Yet we do, and when we realize our foolishness, then we are talking about the dharma. None of this McBuddhism shit either. Pardon my French.
Haven't forgotten piece for blog on impermanence from Tibetan Buddhist perspective. Trying to find a nice way to stir the pot without make it seem like I'm taking a leak on the dharma as a palliative (make Samsara suck less for you as a motivation to practice the dharma. I'm just working on it. Still trying to get a feel for Waylon's audience.
I don't know if they are feeling me or not, but time will tell. I'm here to telling it like it is and not worrying about the rest and enjoying myself working on my bucket list for my final act. I love the Zennist nihilist trolls but I keep on scaring them off I'm afraid. Thank you for the comment, may the force be with you, or however you Zennist acknowledge each other on the internet as fellow travelers (other than writing like you are yoda). Keep those comments coming or I'm afraid Waylon will make me do yoga or eat something healthy for the first time in my life.
Bill .
Hack,
The copy is edited by a professional, my wife who is a managing editor for a legacy publisher so I can't speak in regards to what happens between the piece leaving our hands and appearing in Elephant journal. Think you are barking up the wrong tree on that critique. The meandering style is simply how I write. It's a process of finding out what interests an audience who doesn't give a rat's ass about their parent's Tibetan Buddhism frankly and I can't blame the dharma brats. But Waylon asked me for a little something for his magazine. His mother was a student of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, so it's in blood for an old-school type such as myself. I'm not a writer and I'm figuring it out as I go week to week. Waylon grades on a curve, comparing how I write stands against other contributors. I hold myself to a higher standard than being more eyeball catching than someone else. Baby steps, so I appreciate the feedback. Glad we're both feeling each other on this. I love a good heated discussion. Some of my favorite relationships with people on the internet have begun as drive by shootings over some manner of disrespect. It almost seems pro forma these days, you win some yo lose some, but it's all Samsara regardless of who is on the top of a heap of suffering.
Bill
Fair enough, Bill. I just see a lot of promise here, so the critique–unskillful perhaps–was meant to be positive. But you're right: I was probably barking up the wrong tree. It wouldn't be the first time!
-Matt
Matt,
Don't ever stop barking up the wrong tree my friend. Big fan of the big dog; appreciate the critique of my effort at writing.
Bill
Whenever my husband, Jack Elias, wants to make me laugh he accuses me of [fill in the blank]-ing "like a girl." It always works. What can I do? Boys will be boys.
Ceci,
When Matt @integralhack did a message board drive by the other evening I got in his grill and told him to step off (how men make friends in my twisted male world).
Glad you enjoyed "Hunting with Dick Cheney" and thank you for the comment (Waylon sure does like comments); fortunately, I love mixing it up here; once a boy, always a boy at heart (even with defibrillator).
Bill
i dont know if elephantjournal needs a spell checker or an editor but it is a truly great site, by the way ceci is right boys will always be boys