A Meat-Eating Yogi Chickens Out: Follow-up with Sadie Nardini.

Via on Dec 28, 2010

Bob Weisenberg (for Elephant): Your recent blog A Meat Eating Yogi Chickens Out generated over 3,000 views, 137 comments, and 472 Facebook “likes”. Were you surprised by this reception? And if so, what surprised you the most?

Sadie: This was my first post for EJ, and I have to say: Wow. Double-wow, in fact.

I knew from the subject matter that it would generate some comments, but I had no idea what a heated discussion we’d get into, or that the post would become that popular.  What surprised me wasn’t the reaction from some in the vegan community, who are obviously not going to like anyone telling yogis that eating meat has a place in the world. It really struck me how many omnivore-yogis there are, who are not only eating meat, but fine with their diet, and relieved to hear that others feel the same. The support I received from those fellow conscious carnivores was as loud as the sometimes not so subtle disagreement I got from the non-meat eaters.

Then again, there were a few lovely vegetarians and vegans who crossed the aisle, if you will, and let us all know there are those out there who can choose a different path (no meat) but accept, value and respect those who don’t eat or think about food in the same ways.

Another surprising aspect of the post was how few people discussed the main point of my article, which was the call to action for everyone–omni or veggie–to cease funding the factory food industries whenever possible. It was lost in the sauce of the Hamlet-esque back-and-forth about the question to eat meat, or not to eat meat…

There is never any question for me that I’m going to have a big juicy steak or not once in a while. I’m not interested in winning all the tempeh-lovers over to my carnivorous lifestyle (10 points for a Raw Foodist!!). I am, however, inviting readers, no matter what they prefer to be served at the dinner table, to try and obtain it from cleaner, wilder and more compassionate sources.

When we can get past blaming, shaming and judging others for their choices, perhaps we’ll be ready to see how the greater whole can work together for the greater good, each in their own unique way. Until then, as in the comments section of my blog, this circling, ineffective fight will continue to overshadow the solution we all seek.

Bob: I just went back and read through all 137 comment and replies to your article.  It’s almost overwhelming.  I admire the way you stayed right smack in the middle of the debate, sticking to your guns, yet at the same time welcoming debate.  That’s what made everyone so comfortable speaking their mind.

Sadie: Thank you–it’s interesting to read some of the comments that get rather personal, and try to walk the line between standing in my truth and being open to other perspectives. It’s easy to do when you’re thanking someone for agreeing with your views or having your back, but then it’s also easy to get defensive when someone completely thinks you’re wrong for believing as you do. Yet, as yogis, we realize that it’s never about the other person, ultimately. You act the way you need to represent your core values, and then, well…come what may.

Sometimes I had to take a few breaths first, and just like in life, not write the first (usually four letter) words that came to mind. If I can’t show integrity in the face of both support and criticism, I really have no place being a leader in the field of balance. So, it’s really important to me that I both talk the talk and walk the walk, as imperfect as I may be in its implementation.

Bob: You say the “ineffective fight will continue to overshadow the solution we all seek”.  Do you think there really is a solution that the two sides could both accept?  What would that solution look like if not the middle ground you propose in your article itself?

Sadie: I think there is a solution for sure, but I don’t think there is one answer that both sides will fully accept. This is because what might balance the earth–little or no factory farming–is not the sole ultimate goal that some vegans and vegetarians are aiming for. I mean, they want it to happen, for sure, but their other, and perhaps opposing demand is that no one eat any meat ever again. If we’re all honest with ourselves, we can see that we are dealing with a moral issue wrapped in an environmental one.

The problem with this is that although I think most people can agree that we don’t want to ruin our planet, the means to creating a viable, sustainable local and world ecosystem will never, in my opinion, be agreed upon by everyone. This is because some of us, myself included, believe that if we ate much less meat, and less processed or chemical-laden food in general, from sources that are organic and work in harmony with the environment, and not in opposition to it, we could have our steak…and eat it too.

So I think it’s important for some of us who are not morally opposed to consuming animal protein to find a road to balance, just as our non-meat-eating counterparts are trying to do. In fact, we are much more united than it may seem in our mutual focus on amplifying sustainability however possible, while maintaining a diet on which we feel optimally vital and healthy. Unfortunately, the moral imperative of those who have decided that “meat is murder” has also become enmeshed in their philosophy of yoga, which in actuality, never spoke on the subject at all.

My hope is for yogis to educate themselves about their yoga foundations enough to realize that, in the beginning, middle and end, the call is for each of us to use the principles of Ahimsa, Satya, and all the rest to come to our own path of personal transformation. Along the way, perhaps we can stop telling each other that the roads anyone else has chosen are wrong, or “not yogic”, but instead bow to one another and realize that each conscious practitioner we meet, as diverse as we all are, are doing what they can to bring harmony and lessen suffering. The more people can stop assuming they have all the answers, and even consider the possibility that eradicating all carnivores from the planet (what’s next–stopping cats from catching mice?) might not actually be the best thing for it.

Perhaps a conscious food chain could be the change we seek, because the all-or-nothing approach is not going to bring the majority of middle-path practitioners into the fold. It will just leave them without any knowledge or tools for how to help the world…even if they are not on a moral crusade to perfect it, and everyone on it.

Bob: Thanks, Sadie. Let’s invite everyone else join in this discussion by commenting below.

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About Sadie Nardini

Sadie Nardini, is the founder of Core Strength Vinyasa Yoga, an anatomically-optimized flow style that gives you more results and benefits for every minute spent on your yoga mat. She is a holistic anatomy geek, healthy hedonism advocate, yoga expert, author, and TV host who travels internationally bringing empowering tools to yoga teachers and students everywhere. Her new book, The 21-Day Yoga Body: A Metabolic Makeover, Life-Styling Manual to Get You Fit, Fierce and Fabulous in Just 3 Weeks! (Random House), is out now, and her TV show, Rock Your Yoga, is playing across the country on the new Veria Living Network. With Sadie, you'll sweat, laugh, learn, and come away transformed, informed, and inspired anew. Learn more at www.SadieNardini.com.

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34 Responses to “A Meat-Eating Yogi Chickens Out: Follow-up with Sadie Nardini.”

  1. Tobye Hillier yogi tobye says:

    Love it, love it, love it!

    Thanks Sadie and Bob :)

  2. Caroline says:

    I love it, love it, love it too!

    I especially love the following passage: "Along the way, perhaps we can stop telling each other that the roads anyone else has chosen are wrong, or “not yogic”, but instead bow to one another and realize that each conscious practitioner we meet, as diverse as we all are, are doing what they can to bring harmony and lessen suffering."

    – Hallelujah!

  3. elephantjournal says:

    Some perspective: 137 comments for elephant is one of our most-discussed, ever. Thanks Bob "Yoga Editor" Weisenberg and most especially Sadie, of course. ~ Waylon

  4. elephantjournal says:

    http://www.facebook.com/elephantjournal

    Jill:
    Lol. Yes, let's "bow to our fellow yogis" who choose to consume animal flesh for vanity. Do you see the contradiction?

    I tell ya, EJ. Sometimes you entertain the most low-vibrational people and subjects. But entertainment is the operative word.

  5. jill tow says:

    Per your request, Waylon, it appears my fb comment made it here as well. Thank you for fixing my typo!

  6. Any choice we make is neither right, nor wrong, it simply creates Karma. Each path is unique, as is the personal suffering we each endure because of our Karma. Ahimsa is freedom from violence, freedom from harm. What is lost on most Yogi's is the subtle truth that there is no black and white in any doctrine. Non violence can be taken to such an extreme that life is no longer possible. Ahimsa can be taken far enough to create vanity and increase the ego. The choice to eat meat is neither wrong nor right. If it produces suffering and violence, it will surely create negative Karma. Sadie's choice to eat meat is her own. Any Karma associated with that choice is her own, it does not make her choice wrong or right.

    I personally do not eat anymore. I believe that is the best choice for me, the best direction to walk on my own path. It does not make it wrong or right in grand scheme. It just makes it my choice, my Karma.

  7. Leslie says:

    We also need to consider that our bodies are not made equally and due to indvidual chemical makeup , being a true vegan or vegitarian may not be condusive for proper health . There are a myriad of food allergies out there from soy , beans, legumes , gluten etc etc etc . Granted this is only my opinion but as a whole we should just be held accountable for ethical practices . Starting with how we treat our food . Afterall isnt that the utlimate sacrfice giving up yur life to nourish another . shouldnt that deserve our ethical treatment and respect ????

  8. J.T. says:

    I don't know if I would quite go as far as to call myself a 'yogini' though I practice yoga and other spiritual pracices. Maybe I will feel comfortable calling my self such, one day . . . but I digress . .
    Personally, I am a Pagan/Pantheist, and believe firmly in animism . . and because of this, I see plant, mineral, animal, protozoan life as spiritual/sacred . . or whatever you would like to term it. I also recognize that (as one of my fave bands Tool says) "This is necessary. Life feeds on life, feeds on life, feeds on life" . . . .yes, I am quoting a rock band in a yogic discussion . .you wanna make something of it :P . . . .just playing, anyways . . . . . .

  9. J.T. says:

    I believe in the idea that anyone who has watched the Lion King has heard of . . . The Circle of Life. . . .. I think that we should make efforts to be more conscious carnivores, as Sadie put it, by trying to eat more humanely and boycotting tortuous companies, like Butterball, etc .. . but that eating meat, in itself, is a very natural and human thing to do . . and it does not, in any way make you a less 'pure' or 'spiritual' person.

  10. J.T. says:

    I believe that vegetarianism only became so closely associtated with Yoga because of its roots in Hinduism, which (Im told) believes in never harming any living thing, ever . . . . which is a beautiful notion and outlook on life but (in my humble opinion) is quite impossible . . . .esp. given my personal views on life, and spirit, and energy . . . . we, and every bug, head of lettuce, germ, and grain of sand are divine, in nature . . .only our actions and reactions may be termed otherwise. If someone wants to abstain from meat, or animal-product consumption that is their own perogative but I think it is supremely arrogant to preach to others about how to live their lives, and how to go about their spiritual path . . . . .but a gentle reminder every now and then can't hurt <3 "Live and let live"

  11. Christy says:

    Sadie, I read this article and then quickly went to peruse "A Meat-Eating Yogi Chickens Out" as I had missed that one the first time around. All I can say here is Amen Sista! I too gave up corporate and factory farmed meat about three years ago. It was hard at first to find a substitute. However, now my family enjoys chicken, turkey, pork and beef all from local farm that have what we call happy animals. We also enjoy venison that my husband hunts and fish that my father-in-law catches here in Iowa and in Canada. We are never with out animal protein. It is possible to not support the corporate, factory farm machine and eat a diet rich in animal protein. For me, after three years of eating this way I have decided to become a vegetarian, but that is not necessarily the choice all will make. I am so pleased that someone of your stature has come out to embrace the philosophy of conscious and humane choices surrounding eating meat. Bless you!

  12. To expand further: Ahimsa as a practice first and foremost centers around the person. First you must do no harm to yourself, second you must do no harm to any living thing. The paradox can be reached however that in order to live, one must take life. We are not plants, and we do not generate our own food like pants do. For us to sustain our lives, we must take in the life force of other beings. We should strive to do this in the least harmful way however. Abstaining from meat has the greatest impact in this regard. Second, would be abstaining from other animal products that do not result in the direct death of the animal, but may induce suffering, such as dairy or eggs. Next would be to abstain from eating plant life where the plant is killed in the process. Next would be to abstain from eating things produced by plants (fruits and nuts primarily) that have not naturally fallen from their source. In other words the least harmful way to eat would be to eat only those things produced by plant life that have detached naturally from their source (you could make the argument that meat from animals that have died of natural causes would be permissible using the same logic). It would be very difficult for a modern human being to stay healthy on such a diet, and in turn such a diet may in fact cause harm to that person, completely negating the mandate to do no harm to the self.

    There is no black or white solution. There is only the best Karmic solution for each individual. My personal opinion is that would be a healthy vegetarian diet that only allows for the consumption of dairy or unfertilized eggs that are produced with no suffering to the animal that provides them. It gives you the greatest impact to karma, without going too extreme. But that may not be the best solution for everyone.We must all find our own path, and keep in mind that there is no such thing as a yes or no answer in Yoga.

  13. FYI: "Organic" or "Free rage" meat isn't exactly all it's cracked up to be. http://www.peta.org/living/vegetarian-living/Stil… So if you do choose to eat meat, make damn sure you know it's source.

  14. dan says:

    Personally, I can't imagine co-mingling a yoga practice with eating meat, which seems like putting on sandbags on to learn to swim, x-ray-specs to drive, etc. I've known long-term vegans who started eating meat (after taking ayahuasca), and after half a year they had become less light and heavier, more grounded and slower. I know a yogin who eats salmon once or so a month, and only started after she moved- something about the place she now lives requires it for her.

    While my friends observe the cause-effect of their diet, and continue to experiment with it, they never pretend they weren't killing to eat, which phrases like "conscious carnivore" or "taking animal protein" sound suspiciously like. Of course meat is murder. Murder is intentional killing; why be shy about this?

    Just as industrial farming isn't bad "just because", but because of the poisons it requires, eating meat is considered unsuitable for yoga (mediation, pranayama, etc) not just because of the violence associated with it, but also because meats slow the mind and otherwise drags the body away from balance/sattva.

    Ayruvedic, buddhist and tantric texts have their opinions on when it is appropriate to eat meat, and what kinds, but yogic literature is not remiss in saying eating meat is contra-indicated. Patanjali doesn't give dietary advice, but of course no particular asana is mentioned either. The sutras introduce concepts, leaving the specifics to the student; how my presence could cease hostilities in those around me, when I might be eating one of them I do not know (a hypnotic presence perhaps, but that would be scammy). In Vyasa's comentary, ahimsa is defined as not injuring any being at any time or in any way, and is said to be the basis for the other yamas, and further, meat and animal skin are under the 'greed' sub-heading of violence. The Hatha Yoga Pradipica classifies meat as "unsuitable", along with garlic, onion, booze, sexual-stimulants, basically anything significantly rajasic or tamasic. The flux of hormones, proteins and everything that allows thought are effected by what (and how) we eat.

    Beyond calling it neo-yoga, I don't see how yoga and meat eating are to be reconciled. Eat, live and be honest, keep yourself and everyone safe and healthy, but having to attach 'yoga' to one's identity when enacting/promoting non-yogic acts, will, given the fullness of ahimsa and necessities sattva, always see an act of unnecessary desperation and intentional hypocrisy.

  15. Padma Kadag says:

    I have been thinking lately…wow thats a change….everything we do have in our current society and economy is supported by the economy and is maintained by the philosophy which this economy is based. Though I do not exactly agree with the direction of this culture we live in and the frequency by which it discriminates and forces the middle class to be yoked to the plough till they die, I am used to it, it is what I know. I also know that veganism is a product of this society and would not nor could it exist without the built in structure of economy and philosophy of this capitalist system. So without having the luxury of the current downward spiralling society of which we live…luxuries of vanity like veganism could not exist. Our thinking we are politically correct with our "moralistic world changing views" are only products of our current dilema. Do you think we should consider since all of our notions are in fact a creation out of our current mess could not and would not survive without depending on their source..which is this mess which seems to be getting greater with every passing day? Would all of our moralistic movements exist without this capitalism which feeds on the have nots?

    • Alan Haffa says:

      Your premise is wrong: Vegetarianism and veganism have been around long before capitalism. I am not sure where you get the idea that it is a modern practice only.

      • Padma Kadag says:

        Ah…you are right..to a point….to me anyway. The western notion of veganism and vegetarianism is recent and it would not be possible nor would it exist without the structure and philosophy behind capitalism in all of its positive and negative attributes. So my point is that it could not flourish as it is practiced without the current society. Part of the dependency of veganism,on this current society, is it's reliance on science and nutritionists and ever changing moral and ethical issues which do not remain constant in our political world. Vegetarians in the past were for the most part apolitical. Also the personal nature of vegetarianism back then did not depend on agri-business as it does today. My point is that the "luxury" of veganism is attainable in our society because of the political economic capitalist climate. Veganism does not stand alone..

  16. Padma Kadag says:

    NOTE!!! I am using veganism as an example of "moralist view" in our current state. Not to single veganism out.

  17. nathan says:

    "Along the way, perhaps we can stop telling each other that the roads anyone else has chosen are wrong, or “not yogic”, but instead bow to one another and realize that each conscious practitioner we meet, as diverse as we all are, are doing what they can to bring harmony and lessen suffering." I think we have to be really careful about this. It's a little too easy to just fall into an "I'm ok, you're ok" kind of mentality. Writing articles like you did, Sadie, shows you do see issues people aren't necessarily aware of, and might be causing damage by that non-awareness. I've appreciated your honesty and willingness to respectfully work with different viewpoints and still maintaining that honesty. This is bowing to each other. If we are conscious practitioners, being engaged like this is more like an honor than a threat.

    I guess when I see lines like the above, it reminds me of all the spiritual sugar that gets handed out to soothe egos, and which basically allows people to remain stuck in the same place, doing the same destructive behaviors. The rest of your writing and interview avoids this, which is why I found it so powerful. You're kind to readers, but also trust our basic intelligence (even if some of us don't.). As Zen teacher Suzuki Roshi once said "You're perfect just as you are, and you could use a little improvement."

  18. supportsmallfarms says:

    I wouldn't call myself a yogini by any means….but i spose i could call myself a conscious carnivore. I was a vegetarian for almost 5 years, but learned that my body requires meat on occasion. And I do eat meat that is free-range, organically and preferably locally grown (this is a bit more difficult having just moved back to the "big city"). Having spent a few months studying sustainable farming practices in NZ (where the majority, if not all, of the meat is grass fed, and you certainly do know where it comes from, and it certainly does taste better). I harbor a dream of being an organic, grass-fed meat raiser myself someday, possibly. All those small scale farmers need our support if we are ever to get off the mass-production treadmill. I enjoyed this article for the author's emphasis on acknowledging the place of a range of eating and yogic practices, respectful of each other. That's what i'd like to hear more of.

  19. Alan Haffa says:

    I am a vegetarian who does yoga. I don't consider myself better than those who eat meat, but there are some indisputable facts that supporting the goal of eating less meat. First, it would be far easier to feed everyone. Second, if meat eaters ate just one more meal a week without meat it would have a tremendous and positive effect on global climate change. Those are real social and environmental reasons to eat less meat. For me, the ethical reason is the strongest but because ethics are personal I don't judge you if you occasionally eat meat. When my dog died in my arms and two days later when my mother died, in the end, I could see no difference. I loved both. Both had spirits that were good and beautiful. It would be a sacrilege to eat either. But I have milked cows and been around other animals enough to know that the difference between a cow, my dog, and my mother, are much less than we pretend. If it is ok to eat an animal, it is hard for me to see how it is any less justified to eat a dog or even a person. I prefer to err on the side of not eating the flesh of any animal. The bottom line is that we don't need to eat meat; we choose to do so because we like it and because we don't think about how that meat is produced by butchering living animals.

  20. jana says:

    Great topic! I was vegetarian – almost vegan, for many years and was very attached to that label as a part of myself identity. I loved my way of eating and never even wanted to eat meat. However, I developed health issues and after a couple years of trying to make a vegetarian diet work for my dietary needs, I gave up and began eating meat. Physically, I felt better almost immediately, but letting go of that way of identifying myself has been hard. As ridiculous as it sounds, the truth is that it was like getting kicked out of some cool-kid's club. I believe that many people can thrive on a vegetarian diet for their entire lives, but many can not. Ultimately, the goal is to find the most humane, sustainable way of living on this planet.

  21. [...] dibattito è partito con un post dell’insegnante di yoga Sadie Nardini che ha scatenato ben 137 commenti, un record per la testata [...]

  22. Madelain says:

    Good article and reply Sadie. I coudn't agree more.

    I'm stunned at the amount people judge and then proceed to grade other yogi's (you, me & all the other meat eating yogis) into a cast system of who's better than who. I'm sad for that.

    But then I get over it, and continue to do what I know I have nothing to be ashamed about.
    With you till the end Sista!

  23. Tom says:

    I agree, we're just massive animal bodies whose very existence is tied inextricably with consuming other life on the earth. Being conscious of that life and being grateful is yogic, and can inspire everything we do, including choosing as carefully as possible what we consume, for our body's sake and for the huge load it places inexorably on the biosystem of the earth. Being compassionate towards all life, and human life, is part of that. My favorite passage therefore, for me, is paraphrased here–leave the nyah, nyah, nyah, behind and try making the world a better place.

    Sadie Nardini: "most people can agree that we don’t want to ruin our planet, the means to creating a viable, sustainable local and world ecosystem will never, in my opinion, be agreed upon by everyone. This is because some of us, myself included, believe that if we ate much less meat, and less processed or chemical-laden food in general, from sources that are organic and work in harmony with the environment, and not in opposition to it, we could have our steak…and eat it too."

  24. dan says:

    Um… How did you know we have only two yoga books! Well, I should try to avoid the snips and snark, remembering that violence etc, be it mild moderate or intense, from anger greed or delusion, or approved of by oneself or done by another, are the result of the unending ignorance of suffering, so I should instead cultivate their opposite; to continue Vyasa’s commentary (paraphrased): anger is justifying retaliation (they did it so I can), and delusion is presuming reciprocation (animal sacrifice for merit).

    The range of texts you’ve given as “yoga” go far beyond any I’ve ever seen. Certainly, Indian literature is vast, contradictory and overlapping, you might include buddhist and jain texts, even taoist if you want the broadest sense of yoga, but even these would likely include only certain sections of the puranas (devi gita not navaratri instructions) or mahabharata (? is this where the family members were killed?). Yoga, especially just Patanjali’s, is not the only path to bliss and/or awareness. I don’t know how quoting from relevant passages (the only places they come up) in the most well known reference-texts on yoga is cherry-picking, perhaps examples would help, as too for meat-eating yogins not being rare exceptions, or yoga texts that advise or approve of eating meat.

    I know about a dozen people who are veg to carni via ayahuasca, though I know only a few of them well; of them one has gained about 20 pounds, and they are all nice people with regular exercises for all their energy bodies, and notice these things too. I get snippy and grouchy when I’m too acidic, another observation agreeing with ayurveda’s. I’m not sure why you question the validity of my sources and experience when you do not provide any of your own (especially at-hand ones: grist.org, monsanto paying farmers to spray rival’s products, the name of the one-in-100-million who really knows what yoga is, how tantra is a sub-set of yoga not the reverse), and ask your reader to trust your experience because others have supposedly had that experience too. The first in a search (ayurveda meat: http://searchwarp.com/swa2075.htm ) explains that ayurvedic diets can include meat. Ayurveda isn’t yoga. They inform each other, but they have different existential designs. Why cling to yogi as a title, or yoga as an identity? Yogis are exceptions to humanity, and I doubt most anyone reading or writing on ej would qualify as a yoga-possessor, certainly not me.

    Judgement is not discernment; you can discern that these texts and centuries of their adherents, say don’t steal, lie or harm and include in their programs not eating meat, without saying one is the impure evil awful other for doing one of these things (ala overlooking the unvirtuous). Critiquing anyone being judgmental is an act of discernment and love (sticks and logs as Jesus said). Yet, the more intense one is in their practice, the quicker the results come; why should “the yoga community” be quiet about being vegetarian when it slows the results just to include occasional exceptions, let alone put out turkey snacks? Should pork be offered at a bris if people who don’t eat kosher will be present? Do brutes not consciously revel in their cruelty?

    Most people give little thought to their diet. Strong voices on peace-centric diets should not be stifled, even if they run against a once-a-week semi-necessity. Having read your articles and comments, this is what I think of, given less obliquely:

    Whether you do eat meat or you don’t, eat sustainably and be mindful of the sentience that accompanies your food. Factory farmed foods, most especially those producing meats, are hugely wasteful and poisonous to our environment. Factory farmed meat requires huge amounts of water, grains (also factory farmed, coated in pesticides and herbicides), antibiotics and other drugs, produce massive amounts of difficult to dispose of fecal waste, and when considered as whole at the top of the list of greenhouse gas producers. All this to say nothing of the palpable cruelty. Meat does not need to be included in every meal! Local, sustainably fed and raised meat have far less poisons in them and in the environment and are far less cruel. Yes, it is more expensive, but it is much tastier, and having it only a few times a week makes it tastier still. What we eat supports not just our body, but our mind, emotions, and the world around us. Educate yourself on nutrition and be attentive to your own nutritional needs- you may not need meat at all.
    “The yoga community” needs to understand and accept that not everyone is ready, or able, to adopt a full vegetarian/vegan diet. Location, constitution and attachment all contribute to this. Requiring a vegetarian diet, even by attitude or posturing, quickly makes people feel chastised and judged, so please see above, and let us all move towards and encourage peace together, if at our own pace, and without cruelty.

  25. Carlee says:

    If my problem was a Death Star, this aitcrle is a photon torpedo.

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