“Women don’t Lie.” ~ Anonymous

Via elephant journal
on May 9, 2011
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This article comes via the mother of a longtime friend of mine, who I and many of us know to be a gentle bear of a man, far kinder and sweeter than me or just about anyone I know..! We here at elephant are happy to support this important dialogue. I would only ask that we conduct any discussion in a respectful manner, given the many painful and troubling questions it invites. We must all remember that while you and I are free to bike around and work and eat lunch and take our dogs for walks, friends of ours may be stuck in similar situations as the below. Right or wrong, this is a situation that calls for compassion and insight. ~ Waylon Lewis, ed.

I cannot tell you my name because what I am about to talk about is an ongoing legal matter. I will tell you that I am a feminist. That I fought for the rights of women to be believed. I worked for a rape crisis center in the 80s. I helped organize and participated in Take Back the Night events. I am friends with therapists and activists who have worked tirelessly for the rights of women and children. I was sexually abused as a child, and it defined my life for a number of years.

I am also a mother. I have raised a beautiful son, now a beautiful, caring man. He is honorable and strong. He has a deep spiritual practice. He is a man sensitive to the needs of women. Because of my involvement in “the movement” and because at some point he became aware of my own painful history, he is empathetic to women who have been abused.

Last year a woman, we’ll call her Sarah, accused my son of attempted sexual assault. She said, she thinks he tried to rape her. She and my son had been dating for a couple of months, but mostly they were consoling each other, I think. He, brokenhearted over the recent breakup of a long term relationship, she, confused over her on again, off again boyfriend who didn’t treat her very well.

This woman was also feeling a lot of conflict between her purported Christian beliefs and being attracted to two men. Discussions with her therapist didn’t help because, as she told my son, (let’s call him Robert), the therapist said, “what’s wrong with being attracted to two men?” But she couldn’t deal with that, and came to Robert’s house and told him she didn’t want to see him anymore. It wasn’t quite as clear cut as that because she lay down on the bed with Robert and there was flirting and fondling before she came to her decision. When she did, Robert agreed, and got up, walked her to the door. They hugged and he walked her to her car.

I know a lot of this because my son and I are friends. He had reservations about this relationship and had voiced his concerns to me. Sarah had told him that her father had abused her as a child and she had been in therapy for a long time. She had been on serious medications for bi-polar disorder for most of that time. Last summer while they were dating, she decided to get off of her meds. She told Robert she was experiencing blackouts. “Is that normal?” she would ask him. She had exhibited some strange behavior through the course of their relationship, but he had great empathy. I think seeing this reflected his own damaged soul and mine. But he was relieved when she called it off.

I have talked to therapists about bi-polar disorder, the meds that treat it and what happens when a person goes off those meds without a doctor’s supervision. None of it is good. One therapist I talked to said that false accusations skyrocket when someone decides to go cold-turkey. But because of rape shield laws that have been in place since the early 80s and because of defense lawyers’ fear of seeming to be “victim bashing,” these things more than likely will not be brought up. Nor can we bring up her litigious nature and her perception that a lot of other people, including a massage therapist, are out to hurt her.

That was the last of it for a month and then she began to think that Robert had ‘tried’ to rape her. She contacted the police. A policewoman wired her up and had her call Robert at 9pm one night. I have seen the transcript of that call and through the words on the page you can feel her desperation as she begs Robert to admit to something, anything that will “prove” her allegations.

You can hear Robert’s bewilderment as he denies over and over again her false accusations. At one point, he calls her sweetie (as he calls all his close friends), “Sweetie, I know you’re in pain.”

Despite no evidence, despite the fact that she is obviously a troubled woman, despite other attempts by her in the past to accuse people of hurting her in some way, despite her own admissions of wanting to sue others still, despite my son’s spotless record and the support of myriad women who have known him for years, the state has chosen to pursue this “case.”

If you think that women don’t lie to get back at men, how naive can you be? Yet we live in a culture of “women don’t lie,” a culture fostered by women’s groups since the 70s. A culture I helped create and support. A philosophy I believed.

Because why would women lie? The process of coming forward, going through the legal system was so horrific, so humiliating, why in the world would a woman put herself through it?

But that was then. Then, sexual abuse was hidden and women were maligned and humiliated if they dared come forward. And strong, brave women stood up for the rights of their children and themselves.

Now there are women’s groups with a strong political voice. There are women in political office, policewomen, and so on. Men and women now are predisposed to believe women when they accuse someone of rape. It is sometimes a knee jerk reaction that we have not evaluated for its veracity. We have not wanted to hear that women sometimes lie. The system has supported all women even those who lie. They’ve made it easy for them. If it is proven that a woman has lied, they are not prosecuted. They are at most sent to counseling. And being a “victim” can be intoxicating to some. It can let them off the hook for being responsible for their own actions.

But who is going to protect our sons? We who were on the front lines in the 70s when things were bad for women, we have raised good sons. Men we are proud of. Who will stand up for them?

I am now appalled to think that I was one of these women who thought that women don’t lie…and where there smoke there’s always a fire. Despite having raised a beautiful son, I was a sexist. Then I started doing research. There have been studies done since the 80s citing the percentage of rape allegations that are false.  Some studies say as high as 60%. People who have been dealing with this for years have tried to tell us that women do lie. But we haven’t wanted to hear.

(I will quote these studies but will not footnote them. They are listed at the end of this article.)

In a 1996 study published by the U.S. Department of Justice, “Convicted by Juries, Exonerated by Science” Peter Neufeld and Barry C Scheck co-founders of the Innocence Project stated:

“Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing… These percentages have remained constant for 7 years.”

Colorado’s own Craig Silverman, a former Denver DA and a zealous prosecutor of rapists, was also critical of what he calls the “politically correct victims advocate’s view” held by many prosecutors who want to “always believe the woman.” Silverman states:

“During my time as a prosecutor who made case filing decisions, I was amazed to see all the false rape allegations that were made to the Denver Police Department.  It was remarkable and surprising to me.  You would have to see it to believe it.  Any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes that there is. A command officer in the Denver police sex assaults unit recently told me he placed the false rape numbers at approximately 45 percent.”

Feminist rhetoric has merely replaced the old stereotypes. Now instead of being humiliated and scorned when we come forward, we are welcomed with an all-encompassing “Women Don’t Lie.”

“Due to the institutionalization of feminist ideology within the legal system – along with the political correctness that pervades our society – a lot of men have been defamed, imprisoned and/or fined due to the false accusations that were made against them by women.  For this reason, a lot of Divorce lawyers encourage their female clients to falsely accuse their husbands of rape, child abuse and/or domestic violence.” – Aaron Larsen

We have systematically refused to consider the possibility that women lie. We have even attacked those who wanted to discuss the possibility. Law professor Alan Dershowitz reports that he was accused of sexual harassment for discussing in his law class the possibility of false rape allegations. Some colleges with speech codes have equated talk of false rape allegations with “discriminatory harassment.”

Why would women lie?

Why wouldn’t women lie? They lie to protect themselves, to alleviate guilt, or because they are delusional. They lie because they can. For all the reasons that people lie, women lie.

“Empirical evidence does not support the widespread belief that women are extremely unlikely to make false accusations of male sexual misconduct. Rather the research on accusations of rape, sexual harassment, incest and child sexual abuse indicates that false accusations have become a serious problem. The motivations involved in making a false report are widely varied and include confusion, outside influence from therapists and others, habitual lying, advantages in custody, disputes, financial gain and the political ideology of radical feminism.” – Frank S. Zepezauer

But there is another reason women lie about rape. Rape is a deeply personal crime. Some women even harbor rape fantasies. Falsely accusing a man of rape can be deeply satisfying because it is sexual and even romantic. And it cuts to the heart of a male/female relationship. In his paper, Patients Who Make False Accusations, Dr. Richard C. W. Hall cites a particular case in which:

“We talked to a young borderline woman, who reported that she had made allegations to her county medical society that her psychiatrist had been sexually inappropriate with her. She reported that she was angry at him, that he had not given her the attention that she wanted, and that she made up the charges to get even. Although she candidly reported that he had never touched her, she said that she ‘was sure that he wanted to.’”

I have watched my son for 40 years. I have watched him grow from boy to man. I have seen him in his interactions with women and men. I have marveled at his sensitivity, his empathy. Many times I have thought, “Wow, he is a feminist’s dream. A man who listens. Who cares. Who is strong and deeply spiritual. A man who can be a woman’s friend. Who can comfort another in time of need. He is truly a good and decent man.

But if you would discount the word of a mother, what about all the women in his life? The girlfriend that has known him since high school to his most recent girlfriend? All have come forward on his behalf. All have remained his steadfast friend even after their romantic relationship ended.

And what of the word of their parents who have come forward? Including two psychotherapists who work with battered women. What of the casual dating partners and friends from far and wide, both male and female who have all come forward on his behalf? They too have spoken out for him. This man is not capable of doing this thing.

Never have I been to visit him that someone did not congratulate me on raising such a fine man.

Our good men are being harmed. This good man is being harmed.

“Due to immense pressure from rabid feminists, the state was placed in the position of convicting as many accused rapists as possible, or face an onslaught of abuse from second-wave-feminists….” – Aaron Larsen

The current climate in Colorado appears to be: Try them all. Let God sort them out. I have been told that there are political reasons for that. Reasons that have nothing to do with the validity of a particular case but with the fear of an attack by an opponent in an election. The District Attorney is an elected official. But doesn’t the state have better things to do than try meritless cases? Isn’t there a voice of reason somewhere?

Dr. Richard C. W. Hall in his paper, Patients Who Make False Allegations, The Role of the Forensic Psychiatrist, has created a checklist for the evaluation of patients’ allegations. It follows:

1)    Is accuser creditable?

2)    Is story consistent and believable?

3)    Is there a motive for revenge or mischief?

4)    Have other allegations been made previously?  Does a pattern of allegations exist?

5)    Has the patient been counseled in their charges by some professional who has a vested interest?

6)    Is there any physical evidence of misdeed?

7)    What is the reputation of the accused?

8)    How does the accused respond to the charges?

9)    Are there issues of custody, property settlement, divorce, or suit involved?

10) Is there a history of personality disorder – antisocial, narcissistic, borderline – in either party?

11) Is there a history of alcohol or substance abuse in either party?

If the state were to apply this or any reasonable checklist to the allegations against my son, this “case” would have gone in the trash bin months ago, we wouldn’t be out thousands of dollars, countless sleepless nights and the feeling that the system simply doesn’t work.

If anyone can accuse a good man of something like this and cause him so much grief, then what has our system become? The terms rape, sexual assault, sexual abuse have become so ubiquitous as to be meaningless (although still very much emotionally charged).  We have cast such a wide net that laws and statutes that were devised to protect us from the worst of the worst, the serial rapists, sexual predators and pedophiles are now being used to punish men who urinate near school yards or a boyfriend who takes the arm of his inebriated girlfriend to get her out of a party.

An article titled Feminists Fallacies Hurt Police Training states:

“If every incident between a man and a woman can be framed as a prelude to an atrocity, then all men can be branded as predators. The error in logic, that all men are potential rapists, allows feminists to link attitudes and behaviors for which there is NO connection and allows them to condemn the mild-mannered man given to the occasional caustic comment to sharing an axis with O.J. Simpson.”

That is not to say that there are not terrible crimes committed against women and children every day. According to Believe Her! The Woman Never Lies Myth, Frank Zepezauer says:

“This growing gap – between the  anguish suffered by the victims of traditionally defined sex crimes and what is suffered by victims of ideologically defined crimes – suggests that the crisis we face is not the result of a sexual misconduct epidemic but of the crisis mentality itself, an ever more hysterical vision of a ‘rape culture.’”

This hysterical crisis mentality has created a gap between our awareness of the now highly visible victims of sexual misconduct and the almost invisible victims of false allegation. The lesser known victims have their own stories to tell, enough to reveal another long ignored injustice that demands remediation. False allegations of sexual misconduct have deprived a rapidly growing number of men and women of their reputations, their fortunes, their children, their livelihood and their freedom. Wasting the time and money of families and communities, and have left some so desperate that they have taken their own lives.

Zepezauer concludes:

“For that reason, in the current revision of our sexual misconduct code, we must retain as a guiding premise the realization that women can lie because we know that, for several reasons, more than a few women have lied, more often than idealogues have admitted….too often, in any event, to be ignored by our jurisprudence, feminist or otherwise.”

It’s time that we admitted what is right in front of us. Not every woman tells the truth and not every man is a potential rapist.

Please someone, tell the State of Colorado.


Sources used in this article:

MND, mensnewsdaily.com, “During My Time as a Prosecutor I was Amazed to See all the False Rape Allegations that Were Made.”

North Shore News, Alana Mercer, “Feminist Fallacies Hurt Police Training?

Men’s Rights Online, Aaron Larsen, “False Accusation Issues”

Dr. Richard C. W. Hall Publications, Dr. Richard C. W. Hall, “Patients Who Make False Allegations”

Salon Newsreel, Cathy Young, Who Says WomenNever Lie About Rape?”

FoxNews.com, Wendy McElroy, “False Rape Accusations May Be More Common Than Thought”

IPT Journal, Frank S. Zepezauer, “Believe Her! The Woman Never Lies Myth”

Richardwebster.net, Richard Webster, “False Allegations: End This Cruel Injustice”


The Witchcraft Trials in Salem:  A Commentary by Douglas Linder


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314 Responses to ““Women don’t Lie.” ~ Anonymous”

  1. Louisa says:

    Something similar happened to my cousin- one of the most gentle, respectful people I know. He's a history teacher who was babysitting a study hall. A girl was standing next to him while he was seated, and began talking on her cell phone. He tapped her knee to get her attention silently and asked her to put the phone away, as per school policy. And this girl, despite the room full of watching students (none of whom backed her up), accused him of groping her butt and making a lewd comment. It turned out the girl had made similarly hysterical accusations before and was known as a drama queen and an instigator. She called her mother, someone with influence on the school board, who then came down to the school and grabbed my cousin by the shirt to scream at him in front of other kids. One child pulled out his cell phone and filmed the incident, only to have his phone confiscated by the principal and the video file erased.

    My cousin was lucky- the judge was sensible enough to look at the sheer improbability of the accusation (really? A teacher groping a girl in front of a classroom of about 30 watching kids?), the wildly fluctuating, changeable story, and the previous behavior of both accuser and accused, and dismissed the case. He was able to keep his job. But for a while there, he thought he was going to lose it, and that his new wife's ex husband would be able to use the case as fodder in their ongoing custody battle over their young daughter. His life was almost ruined because one girl decided to make a teacher pay for telling her to put her cell phone away.

    I do hate the blame the victim mentality that causes people to ask what a rape victim was wearing, or how she was behaving. Rape and sexual assault are never okay. But lying about rape and assault? That is also heinous behavior. It ruins lives, and it belittles true victims.

    • KARMA MRA MGTOW says:

      By Paul Elam

      Tomorrow, Monday, May 16th, from 11:00 a.m. to -12:00 noon, PDT, Steve Berkimer of the False Rape Society will be on Newstalk 1380 broadcasting from Southern California discussing false rape/sexual assault claims, with Andrew Pari, on his "Chasing the why" show. The show can be listened to live at http://tunein.com/radio/KOSS-1380-s26278/.

      A copy of the broadcast will be posted to FRS shortly afterward, which I will also steal and post in the sidebar here (if they let me).

      Way to go FRS! This movement is moving because of men like Steve and Pierce!

    • Krimson says:


    • Mike says:

      "I do hate the blame the victim mentality that causes people to ask what a rape victim was wearing, or how she was behaving."

      Was that ever really a victim-blaming mentality, or was it just prudent people asking questions about the character and circumstances of both the accuser and the accused? Perhaps "victim-blaming" was never more than a feminist narrative created to stifle the free speech of feminist dissenters and bolster the case for rape shield laws (which are precisely the cause of the problem that we now face).

  2. elephantjournal says:

    Chris Tashi by only revealing what they want you to know, technically…they are not lying

    elephantjournal.com Chris, did you read the lady's article before commenting? I can't tell, my bad. ~ W.

    Lolly Galvin I know a similar duration. Women do lie

    Jennifer Imme I read the article. Very informative & shocking to me, but I will always respect the truth, no matter how incriminating or sad it may be. Great article.

    Cindy Wells Yaple That is so sad…..

    Chris Tashi regarding the truth, discrimination is always the best policy

    J.J. Arrant The fact is only rich men are in power, the rest of us live as second class citizens. We are told we are in power, while women own the mantle of victim, prohibiting us from having any chance to change the places we lack power. I really liked the author's writing but couldn't help thinking a man writing an article about going through this situation wouldn't get published.

    • chris says:

      > Chris Tashi by only revealing what they want you to know, technically…they are not lying

      Sure they are. It's called a lie by omission. The intent is deceit, the method is immaterial.

  3. That's horrible! I have a 10year old son and your story–along with others I've heard from moms with boys in high school–prepares me for what's to come. I wish you and your son the best.

    • KARMA MRA MGTOW says:

      By Paul Elam

      Tomorrow, Monday, May 16th, from 11:00 a.m. to -12:00 noon, PDT, Steve Berkimer of the False Rape Society will be on Newstalk 1380 broadcasting from Southern California discussing false rape/sexual assault claims, with Andrew Pari, on his "Chasing the why" show. The show can be listened to live at http://tunein.com/radio/KOSS-1380-s26278/.

      A copy of the broadcast will be posted to FRS shortly afterward, which I will also steal and post in the sidebar here (if they let me).

      Way to go FRS! This movement is moving because of men like Steve and Pierce!

  4. KristinSLuce says:

    You make a great case, and of course, as a reader, I am not be in a position to "know" whether he did anything or not. I can say that I have worked with borderline clients who would accuse anyone of anything if they thought it would get them what they wanted.

    I was struck by you comment: "If anyone can accuse a good man of something like this and cause him so much grief, then what has our system become?" But, of course what look like "good men" DO rape women and children. Men who "look good" can be the classic pedophile, for example. The truth is that anyone can and should be able to make an allegation, and one hopes that the justice system will be unbiased in hearing and ruling on these cases such that only a small number of cases will be heard and/or ruled on in error. Your article raises serious questions about whether that is what is actually happening, or whether the "women-as-victims" has swayed the judicial and political system. Thank you for that.

    I am deeply sorry to hear about what you and your son are going through, with the assumption that what you see and say here is correct. Simply defending oneself is an enormous financial and emotional catastrophe, as I well know from my own life experience.

    • Anon says:

      "The truth is that anyone can and should be able to make an allegation, and one hopes that the justice system will be unbiased in hearing and ruling on these cases such that only a small number of cases will be heard and/or ruled on in error. "


    • Andrew says:

      "But, of course what look like "good men" DO rape women and children. Men who "look good" can be the classic pedophile, for example."

      "The truth is that anyone can and should be able to make an allegation, and one hopes that the justice system will be unbiased in hearing and ruling on these cases such that only a small number of cases will be heard and/or ruled on in error."

      Are you kidding me? So because someone who looks like an average, everyday man COULD be a rapist, it's completely ok to accuse him of rape, completely destroy his reputation, his family, his relationships, his entire life, even though you admit that you work with "borderline clients who would accuse anyone of anything if they thought it would get them what they wanted" just in case he actually is a rapist? What ever happened to justice in this country?

  5. Sasha A. says:

    What a powerful, informative piece. Thanks for the eye-opener, and best of luck to you and your family.

    • KARMA MRA MGTOW says:

      By Paul Elam

      Tomorrow, Monday, May 16th, from 11:00 a.m. to -12:00 noon, PDT, Steve Berkimer of the False Rape Society will be on Newstalk 1380 broadcasting from Southern California discussing false rape/sexual assault claims, with Andrew Pari, on his "Chasing the why" show. The show can be listened to live at http://tunein.com/radio/KOSS-1380-s26278/.

      A copy of the broadcast will be posted to FRS shortly afterward, which I will also steal and post in the sidebar here (if they let me).

      Way to go FRS! This movement is moving because of men like Steve and Pierce!

  6. A. Reasoner says:

    It’s about time that reasonable people come to the understanding that feminism has become yet another corrupt ideology. What once started as good and just has transmogrified into an ugly beast.

    Who better to reform that beast than those who breathed life into it?

    Every ideology needs a reformation to return to usefulness, and if there is any intellectual or moral honor among women, then they will begin the reformation of feminism post haste before more craziness can be done.

    Let the scales fall from their eyes, that they may see……….

    • Karma says:

      Feminism was never "good." Read "The Flipside of Feminism" by Venker & Schlafly.

      It was a scheme cooked up by mentally ill women and open Marxists in the '50s and '60s. It was created for the purpose of destabilizing our society, growing government , and empowering collectivists.

    • KARMA MRA MGTOW says:

      By Paul Elam

      Tomorrow, Monday, May 16th, from 11:00 a.m. to -12:00 noon, PDT, Steve Berkimer of the False Rape Society will be on Newstalk 1380 broadcasting from Southern California discussing false rape/sexual assault claims, with Andrew Pari, on his "Chasing the why" show. The show can be listened to live at http://tunein.com/radio/KOSS-1380-s26278/.

      A copy of the broadcast will be posted to FRS shortly afterward, which I will also steal and post in the sidebar here (if they let me).

      Way to go FRS! This movement is moving because of men like Steve and Pierce!

    • TheIncredibleMoose says:

      Correct. This was never a "good ideology" of any kind. It was based in supremacism, not egalatarianism. You might as well say that Nazism was a "good ideology" because at its core, it was aimed at ending the economic impossibility of the Weimar Republic post Versailles treaty.

      Was there a problem in the Weimar Republic? Sure. Was radical militant supremacism the answer? You tell me.

      Asking old school Feminists to fix the problem is like throwing more gasoline on the fire (or to use a more modern analogy, like throwing a couple billion more at Wall Street bankers). If they want it fixed, they can publicily repudiate as an ideology, they can stop lobbying as a special interest group (see VAWA), and they can issue an apology publicly and then shut up and go away.

      • Simon Tarses says:

        Was there a problem in the Weimar Republic?

        Aside from the economic problems cause by the Versailles treaty and the Great Depression, not really that much, unless you mean all of the bullshit that Hitler & Co. believed (including the bullshit Dolchstoßlegende meme and the other nonsense spewed by the German right-wing used as justification for Hitler & Co. doing what they did to Germany later, and what right-wing Tea Party American are using now to justify what they want to see happen to the USA.) Please don't use this sad and unfortunate incident to further your agenda.

  7. If the son of the author is indeed innocent, I am very sorry.

    That said, I think the author's pain in experiencing this has severely affected her judgment. The message alone, that WOMEN DO lie, reminds me of "Jackie Onassis poops." Of course, women lie sometimes. But 60% of the time? I would like to see that statistic measured up against the number of sexual assaults that go unreported. While there may be a percentage of women who have mental illness, or personality disorders, (the cases she is citing,) who make false accusations- actually the statistics say that the vast majority of sex crimes are NOT even reported. These sources cited are not reliable sources. Fox News?

    "Some women even harbor rape fantasies. Falsely accusing a man of rape can be deeply satisfying because it is sexual and even romantic." This statement is harmful and offensive.

    Waylon, I know that you ask for respect in this conversation, but I am not sure that your friend's mother deserves more respect and kid-gloved handling than sexual assault victims/survivors who read this and are deeply confused at so many misunderstandings and the perpetuation of so many false stereotypes. Accusing a man of rape is "romantic." Surely she has never sat in a room and been grilled hour after hour over minute details so that she can be proven an incompetent witness. Surely she has never sat in a hospital waiting room in glaring neon lights waiting to be swabbed and probed while in shock after already having experienced trauma.

    While I can appreciate the perspective of a distraught mother, in what appears to be an unfair situation, I cannot appreciate the need to then call the majority of women liars nor the blaming of feminism for a large oversight for the difficult position of the falsely accused man.

    • CharlieInCo says:

      "Some women even harbor rape fantasies. Falsely accusing a man of rape can be deeply satisfying because it is sexual and even romantic." This statement is harmful and offensive.

      Kimberly, so is a false accusation of rape. Given the flexibility of definitions — consider, for example, that some studies used for high statistics of "sexual assault" have such broad definitions of sexual assault as to include a stolen kiss, or a mutual hookup after too much to drink — it's hard to see how any statistic can be taken at face value.

      On the other hand, after the Duke Lacrosse case, and the number of studies in which DNA evidence eventually exonerated a black man convicted of raping a white woman, it's clear that there is a significant problem of false accusations.

    • Brian Macker says:

      Another area you have made a mistake is in assuming that statistics on unreported sex crimes are not as if not more susceptible to distortion by lying than reported crimes. There are many factors that make lying on surveys or to ones psychiatrist as if not more likely.

      The only statistics I would trust on the percent of unreported rapes would be the number of actual sexual assault victims examined by hospitals vs those that then followed up by the police.

      We have no means of assessing the likelihood of lying for unreported rapes. Is it lower or higher? Unknown. You can't just assume that surveys on unreported rapes is going to have a rate lower than 60%, and it would have to be in order to lower the overall statistic on women lying about rape in general.

    • atlas says:

      'Of course, women lie sometimes. But 60% of the time? I would like to see that statistic measured up against the number of sexual assaults that go unreported'.

      unreported rapes are not the discussion here. your comment is sidetracking this issue that women do lie about rape. 50-60%+ is a minimum that are routinely proven false as in lies with facts and/or the female later admitting she lied. a number beyond that simply are not provable false (or true).

      • Guest says:

        Off the topic of rape and accusations but OT with lying – How about the lie "it's your baby"? Let's paternity test every child and see just how truthful women can be 🙂

      • AntZ says:

        Feminist cries for protection have resulted in laws making paternity testing illegal in many parts of the world. For example, New York state prohibits paternity testing, as does all of Britain.

    • KARMA MRA MGTOW says:

      By Paul Elam

      Tomorrow, Monday, May 16th, from 11:00 a.m. to -12:00 noon, PDT, Steve Berkimer of the False Rape Society will be on Newstalk 1380 broadcasting from Southern California discussing false rape/sexual assault claims, with Andrew Pari, on his "Chasing the why" show. The show can be listened to live at http://tunein.com/radio/KOSS-1380-s26278/.

      A copy of the broadcast will be posted to FRS shortly afterward, which I will also steal and post in the sidebar here (if they let me).

      Way to go FRS! This movement is moving because of men like Steve and Pierce!

    • Kratch says:

      "While I can appreciate the perspective of a distraught mother, in what appears to be an unfair situation, I cannot appreciate the need to then call the majority of women liars nor the blaming of feminism for a large oversight for the difficult position of the falsely accused man. "

      And yet, you are part of a system that routinely calls all men potential rapists, abusers and pedophiles, And don't seem to have an issue with that.

      "Accusing a man of rape is "romantic." Surely she has never sat in a room and been grilled hour after hour over minute details "

      You confuse the consequences of the accusation with the accusation itself. There are some false accusers who never even consider the harm they will cause, claiming to have never wanted to hurt the man. I've heard one story of a man who was charged with rape because he slept with a military officer, and she ended up sleeping in and being late, so she cried rape (of all things) in order to avoid the consequences of being tardy. She claimed to have "not known it would go that far", and that "it quickly spun out of control, and she was too scared to reveal the truth".

      • dogcrazyjen says:

        To some women….yes. All that attention is intoxicating. Just like the parents and caregivers who have Munchhausen syndrome. Some people will go to great lengths to get attention. They are like a child or a dog who will take negative attention over no attention.

        Most women would never do that. Most men would never rape, either.

    • michael says:

      A "true believer" in the cult of feministas, eh?
      Freedom Riders, defending a ravaged land from corrupt carpetbaggers, became The Klan. Students for a Democratic Society became the cop-killing, bank robbing terroists of the SDS-WeatherMEN. Jim Jones ministry to societal outcasts became Jonestown massacre.
      Slavish, blind devotion to an ideology that allows such a foolish response to clear-cut facts and evidence only serves to prove the point this poor, now-undeluded, woman is making.

      • Simon Tarses says:

        SDS didn't become the Weathermen, they were a faction of SDS that did what they did. Are you always going to be blaming the left for everything?

    • Fidelbogen says:

      Yes, women do indeed lie "sometimes" — in fact, quite a lot. But the myth that women DON'T lie is what empowers the feminist false rape industry. THAT is the point at issue here, and that is the point you wish to obfuscate by tossing red herrings into the discussion.

      The blame for the present crisis settles squarely onto the shoulders of feminism. Feminists have created the situation, and feminists continue to duck responsibility for it, or to make excuses for it, or to trivialize it in one way or another. More and more people are aware of such feminist behavior and are speaking their minds accordingly. It shall not be possible to stem the rising tide.

      One more thing: we all know that X number of rapes go unreported. Yet it serves no purpose, other than emotional manipulation, to repeat this over and over. Certainly, it has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER upon the adjudication of evidence during a rape trial. Either the defendant can be proven guilty to a clear and convincing standard of evidence in a given case, or he can't — and spotlighting the issue of unreported rape in that context is utterly irrelevant.

    • diotima says:

      Very well put! The author of this piece is allowing her own personal experience to distort her judgement, albeit very understandably. She is probably in denial, which is horribly sad for her, but accounts for her rash claims. What a horrible situation she must be in having a rapist for a son. Thank God for daughters!

    • Andrew says:

      Difficult position of the falsely accused man? Like how his entire life goes down the drain? His neighbors shun him, he loses his job, he loses his family, he ends up out on the street, alone? That kind of difficult position?

      I've seen it first hand. My gym teacher back in highschool was falsely accused of molesting a young girl. Evidence eventually proved otherwise, but by then, the damage was already done. He was already dead, a homeless, divorced man trying to beg or work enough to feed himself and was shot over a sandwich BECAUSE A YOUNG GIRL DIDN'T WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN CLASS!

      If we're going to spend so much time and energy protecting victims of rape (and we should) we need to protect the victims of false accusations as well.

  8. hmh says:

    The Duke Lacrosse men's team was falsely accused of rape. This article is no surprise, but the author — and especially her son — have my sympathy.

  9. Seerak says:

    It’s about time that reasonable people come to the understanding that feminism has become yet another corrupt ideology. What once started as good and just has transmogrified into an ugly beast.

    That is the pattern followed by all the old “equality” movements, as their liberal philosophic base was co-opted and inverted from underneath them by its enemy, the Left.

    What started as an effort to secure individual rights now finds itself transformed into a movement dedicated to destroying them. What once sought to bring together, now seeks to segregate. What once sought to highlight the relative unimportance of gender and skin color, now stresses them.

    Where once there was Susan B. Anthony, there is now Carol Gilligan; where once there was Martin Luther King, there is now Al Sharpton.

    It is important to grasp that this “transmogrification” didn’t just happen, like the weather; it was a deliberate act.

    • garbuhj says:

      I totally agree with your general comment (so upvoted) but I disagree with you saying that the enemy is "the left." The same thing happens to ALL organizations and movement, including those on the right.

  10. Southern Man says:

    A woman's capacity for falsehood is exceeded only by her capacity for self-delusion. If a woman is convinced that someone "tried to rape her" no power on Earth will ever convince her otherwise. All men know that women lie, and do so far more easily and convincingly than any man; what most men don't realize is the extent to which women believe their own lies.

  11. Austin says:

    Ironic, isn't it? As a feminist, rape crisis worker and abuse alumni, you helped usher in the very mode of thinking that now threatens your son. I'm sure it seemed all correct and proper, right up until the moment that one of yours took the hit.

    • elephantjournal says:

      Great observation, but let's keep these comments kind, rather than biting. There's enough pain going on. ~ W.

      • Karma says:

        Oh come on. How "kind" has our society been to countless boys and men over the years who run afoul of an evil woman?

        The anger is justified.

      • TheIncredibleMoose says:

        The author actively promoted an ideology that directly led to countless innocent men's imprisonment, including her own son… and you don't think she deserves to feel some pain?

        Just her son, eh?

        White Knighting for the win.

        • Mako says:

          I think it's pretty clear that she is already in pain not only that her pain has lifted the fog from her eyes and she sees the danger of feminism.
          So insult her if you want but it will accomplish nothing at this point.

      • Fidelbogen says:

        This "pain", depending on the case, is either deserved or undeserved. So I would seek to redistribute the pain to those who deserve it, and away from those who don't. To reference Catherine Comins, certain people may "possibly benefit" from this pain.

  12. Twirlip says:

    actually the statistics say that the vast majority of sex crimes are NOT even reported

    Really? What “statistics” exist on crimes which were “not even reported”? Where can one access these “statistics” and how were they compiled?

    • Brian Macker says:

      Via surveys which are also subject to lying. If 60% of actual rape accusations are false, imagine how much higher the rate of lying when all you have to do is fill out a survey form with no examination of the credibility of the claim.

      • Kratch says:

        Not to mention the varied definition of rape on those surveys, some of which would include inappropriate catcalling amongst the examples of sexual assault.

  13. ericcs11 says:

    A progressive is someone who lives inside their head, in the fantasy world of theories and narratives. A progressive is someone who has not yet been mugged by reality. Unfortunately, when that inevitably occurs, it is far too late to undo the damage they have already perpetrated on society.

    • LeeReynolds says:

      I sometimes wonder if they even qualify as sentient life. I think that they are the direct result of man's escape from the forces of natural selection. Psychologically defective human beings are no longer culled from the gene pool.

  14. mlsimon says:

    While I can appreciate the perspective of a distraught mother, in what appears to be an unfair situation, I cannot appreciate the need to then call the majority of women liars

    According to the FBI DNA stats it is only 25% of women who make the other 75% look bad. So I guess that women are off the hook. Mostly. Except for a few bad apples.

    “During my time as a prosecutor who made case filing decisions, I was amazed to see all the false rape allegations that were made to the Denver Police Department. It was remarkable and surprising to me. You would have to see it to believe it. Any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes that there is. A command officer in the Denver police sex assaults unit recently told me he placed the false rape numbers at approximately 45 percent.”

    Well that is a bit worse. But still not over half.

    • LeeReynolds says:

      The majority of women are not being called liars, merely the majority who accuse men of rape. Since most women never make such an accusation, their reputation is not being blemished.

    • KARMA MRA MGTOW says:

      You going to post a link or five?

      "only 25% of women " That's one in four you low IQ meat head!!

      • mlsimon says:

        Evidently you are a VICTIM of unannounced sarcasm. My condolences.

        As to a link? They are in the article. The FBI reports. The Colorado prosecutor etc. Evidently you are also a VICTIM of poor reading comprehension. My condolences.

        Funny thing is that I used all those links and references when arguing the Duke Lacrosse case. The person writing the article is way late to the show.

  15. guest says:

    Tell us, how would you have reacted to a report of an attempted rape where the male's former girlfriends stayed friends with him? That his mother said he deep spiritual practice, and was strong and honorable. I would guess that you would have believed the "victim". Why should we believe you now? Why is your son different than every other male out there who you have told us year after year, at take back the night, is a potential rapist?

    You say "a good man is being harmed". Let me tell you that many good men have been harmed for decades. Why is your son differnt? You helped make this problem, you son is paying for it.

  16. dennymack says:

    Very sad about your son. Few accusations leave such a stain as "rapist." It is like being called a racist or a sexist in that there is really no defense. People's perceptions will always be tainted.
    When any crime is politicized, justice goes by the wayside. While we do have a problem with sexual violence-and we always will- the solution has done nothing to remedy the problem, it has just created a new group of victims.
    We have tried to solve the problem by setting aside our traditional reservations about assuming guilt. That just made rape allegations a tool for the wicked.
    We have tried to solve it by redefining rape. We so blurred the line that regret can retroactively create rape. That just generated statistics that reinforce the idea that every man (your son very much included) is a rapist. Take a look behind that stat about the epidemic of rape on college campuses: "Of the college women who are raped, only 25% describe it as rape." Who are these Solons who are wise enough to know more about a sexual encounter than the participants?
    I hope that your son is telling the truth, and that his nightmare ends soon.
    I hope the girl gets her head straight so she doesn't thrash her way through life destroying everyone who strays into her orbit with the emanations of her psychosis.

  17. SDN says:

    I’ve adopted two practices for years that have stood me in good stead.

    1. If there is no evidence of actual physical force, there is no rape or molestation. Period.

    2. I am never alone with any woman unless I have video and audio equipment I control running. Period. She may not know about it, but it WILL be there.

    Until guys start adopting those two rules 100%, they will continue to be vulnerable.

    • Bob says:

      Just be careful with number 2. The wiretapping in some states require that both parties must be aware that recording is taking place.

    • AntZ says:

      "I have video and audio equipment I control running. "

      Most US states allow recording equipment in your home. Most US states do NOT allow recording equipment outside of your home, unless you have consent of all parties.

      I have a recording of a woman that I dated 13 years ago, calmly stating that if I ever left her, she would accuse me of domestic violence and rape. Later, I recorded her holding the phone, threatening to call police, and hitting herself on the lips with the phone receiver hard enough to draw blood. All the time she is saying, "do you think anyone will believe you NOW?"

      She called the police, falsely accused me, and my illegal recording saved my behind (I paid the rent, but the apartment was leased in her name).

      • KARMA MRA MGTOW says:

        All the time she is saying, "do you think anyone will believe you NOW?"

        2011 version….well honey there are thousands of viewers watching us on YouTube right now.

    • Jso says:

      anyone remember the day when you didn't need video and audio recording equipment present to be alone with a woman? remember when women were trustworthy enough to spend time alone with?

  18. Steve M says:

    In my experience, the vast majority of women are perfectly capable of believing anything that will allow them to manipulate people.

  19. David says:

    Years ago, I was dating a woman. I had known her for about a year and we had been going together for several weeks. One day, after work, I stopped by her apartment. We were making out when she suddenly called her sister and began describing what we were doing. I found that odd and told her I had to leave to get home because I would be on call for work (true). As I moved towards the door, she continued to rub herself against me and we began passionately making out until I noticed she had gone still. I asked her what was wrong and she told me in a cold voice that it was time for me to go. I sat in my car wondering what had just happened. So I went back and knocked on her door. She opened the door wearing grey sweats with her arms folded tightly around herself. When I asked her what just happened, she replied that the last guy who treated her like that she had put in prison. I quickly left and avoided her after that. Looking back, I think she may have had mental health issues, but I don't know. I'm just glad I got out of that relationship as easily as I did.

  20. Bull says:

    Over 3,500 years ago, the Bible (Genesis chapter 39) records that Jacob's youngest son Joseph, sold into slavery by his brothers, was taken to Egypt where he was sold to Potiphar as a household slave. Potiphar, recognizing Joseph as a great, God-fearing man, made him the head of his household. Potiphar's wife was furious at Joseph for resisting her relentless attempts to seduce him into sleeping with her, and accused him falsely of rape. Potiphar cast Joseph into prison for years.

    Fortunately, what (wo)man meant for evil, God was able to use for good in the long run. I pray that God does the same for your son, as I always hope he will do for mine.

  21. teapartydoc says:

    The whole problem begins with treating individuals as being part of a group. Our society was on the way to getting over this when some folks realized that there was a political benefit to be had from delaying this phenomenon a bit and began ascribing victim status to certain groups. Then the whole political-correctness thing happened, and here we are, no better off than we were in the fifties. Only white men are the group it is OK to oppress now. One other point: sanity is a completely individualized state. It takes quite a bit of investment of time to determine whether or not someone is sane. In our society we are always in a hurry. If we simply take more time before getting intimate–say two or three years, we are more likely to find out. People can't cover up their true selves that long.

    • LeeReynolds says:

      "If we simply take more time before getting intimate–say two or three years, we are more likely to find out. People can't cover up their true selves that long."

      Anyone who wants to wait 2 or 3 years is already revealing their true self – sexually dysfunctional.

  22. Bob Roberts says:

    To the author, I hope you enjoy the new world you helped create.

    • Beth says:

      Does it make you feel superior to try to hold her personally responsible for this? The system is stacked against men and the feminists wanted it set up that way. However, I believe they started out with good intentions. She (the author) was a victim, so it is natural that she identified with other victims. She has learned this lesson in a very hard way and is trying to save all innocent men – not just her son.

      • Gogonostop says:

        It’s not like she and other Feminists were not warned. Feminists have been told time and time again that they were taking it too far. It was a conscious, deliberate decision on their part. They were not carried away by “good intentions.” They were carried away by their hatred of men.

        Feminists tell men all the time that their intentions don’t matter when it comes to being sensitive to Feminists – rather, that the effect of insensitivity is just as wrong as the intent. Why should “good” intentions save Feminists, when the effect they have created is gender apartheid?

        This Feminist may be better than the rest, and for this I may be kinder to her. But to Feminism in general? No way.

        • Matt says:

          She is not kinder than the rest, she is merely reaping what she has sowed and so decides to back track in all her hate speech on this one subject-her own son. Any other man, same old hate speech still applies. Don't let her seemingly logical approach from this personal experience to other people's experiences fool you-she only threw that in to press the issue about her own son being innocent. As soon as this has past, it's game on again until all men are incarcerated from sex crimes they didn't commit.

      • TheIncredibleMoose says:

        He doesn't have to FEEL superior. He simply IS superior.

        Bob, raise your hand if you personally helped ram a system into law that has been responsible for the destruction of so many lives.

        Didn't think so.

  23. MikeS says:

    Some years ago before cell phones, a friend of mine, a military psychiatrist, pulled over on the way home from the base to help a stranded motorist. The young lady, whom he had never met before, accepted a ride of about two miles into our town and was dropped off at her apartment, after which my friend went home to his wife and kids. Two hours later, the police came to question him about his alleged sexual abuse of the young woman, who said he had tried to molest her. Because of the seriousness of the allegation, the police reported the situation to the military and my friend was forbidden from seeing any patients, even men, for over 18 months, until the system finally decided there was no evidence of any wrongdoing. By that time he was deeply in debt from lawyer bills. Even worse, he was subsequently passed over for promotion, as would anyone with such an unexplained gap in his work record. He was eventually transferred and then required to retire early.

    Nothing was ever done to the young lady, despite the pain and suffering her allegation had caused my friend and his family. My friend, of course, learned a valuable lesson – any stranded motorist is strictly on her own.

    • dude says:

      There is a problem with the women in this culture. part one

      Yes, I know, there are problems with men, too. Believe me, I have heard about them for the last forty years. Some of it true and fair, much of it neither. It was a necessary dialogue just the same. So is this.

      To understand this we need a brief look at history. Women, in the past, were denied voting rights, couldn’t own land and didn’t have much access to employment that would give them the freedom to make it on their own.

      This needed to change, and of course, did, as can be confirmed with a cursory glance at the world around you. I laud those changes. But the problem was in how we got here.

      The reality is that the gender roles of our history were traps for both men and women. Women were relegated to home and children; men to sacrificial roles as protectors and providers. It wasn’t a conspiracy. It was just a matter of survival, and for many thousands of years it worked quite well to that end.

      But once men made the environment safe enough for women to metaphorically "leave the cave," it was only natural and right that men change and allow that to happen.

      And ladies, we did.

      This is the simple but accurate truth of the matter. Men and women developed gender roles that facilitated the survival of the species. And once those roles were not necessary, they did begin the often complicated path to change.

      The problem here is that your knowledge of these historical events is largely shaped, convoluted rather, by feminism. Feminists taught you that your history with men was of unremitting evil; that you were chattel, slaves to men who held all power and shut you out with extreme intent. They even gave it a name.


      It is a word that has become synonymous with oppression. But feminists were loathe to remind you that “Women and children first,” was the patriarchal mantra, and that much of the social norms, even when misguided, were a product of a code adopted for the sole purpose of preserving your life. It wasn't always fair, but the unfairness wasn't always yours. Men died by that code, and trained their sons to do the same.

      The fact that we still do is the subject for another essay.

      So what happened? As feminist distortions were increasingly embraced, and intertwined with the legitimate need for change, men did what they usually do. They reacted to the message and not the messenger and unblocked the entrance to that cave.

      Many of you spit on us on the way out. Many of you still do.

      It has to stop.

      This isn’t just about decency. And it is not just about the chasm of mistrust that separates us from each other, or the legions of the walking wounded from this godforsaken gender war. It is about our future. The vilification of men that you have accepted as appropriate now translates to catastrophe for our sons, for your sons.

      The problem is that what we say, think and feel about people invariably translates into what we actually do to them. Nowhere is this more evident than with our sons, in the here and now.

      If you take an honest look at the academic environment to which our boys are subjected, you will see that their masculinity itself is under attack with ideology that teaches them they are inherently flawed.

      Christina Hoff Sommers documented this in her highly recommended book "The War Against Boys." She writes, "The pedagogy is designed to valorize females, such as teaching history in a woman-centered way. Boys are to be inspired to revere Anita Hill and to “enjoy” quilting. At the same time, schools discourage activities that are natural and traditional to boys, such as playing ball together."

      She goes on to say, with sad accuracy, "Most parents have no idea what their children are facing in the gender-charged atmosphere of the public schools.”

  24. Richard Aubrey says:

    It takes a particular kind of obtuseness to have done all the author describes and not anticipate the results. One has to think the reality is that she anticipated the result and didn't seem to think it a problem. Possibly thought it was a good idea. Until she had to pay the price.
    Sorry about her son.

    • Kratch says:

      it can never happen to me is a belief far to many seem to believe. That said, remember that she herself was (allegedly) a victim. It is far too easy in such cases to NOT see the consequences to others, if the actions promise some kind of comfort to oneself. I hold no ill will towards the author. She understands her place in the problems her son is suffering. She is suffering alongside him, more so for her role in it. And she is (apparently) taking actions to rectify it (and presumably, not just for her son, but to atone, so that all men need not endure this).

  25. david says:


    I love the post where the one woman accuses the other of "clouded judgment".

    The circle of female self-delusion is complete, and no truth can be known.

    Truth is, very few men rape. The answer to this particular question is provided by all the female character witnesses.

    Don't forget, most women want a guilty-until-proven-innocent standard for rape, since they want their word to be unimpeachable.

    The real corrective measure will come from men, who are getting wise t o the lies of women. When we sit on juries, we will no longer believe the crying little woman just because we are "supposed to". The Duke false rape case opened many eyes.

    The woman whose son is in trouble deserves every ounce of heartache she is experiencing, because she is getting her karma for all the other men who have been falsely accused.

    All the self-righteous religious fury of the take-back-the-night marches, the very fashionable protests (women are about nothing if not about fashion) and all the political correct enforcement SHE HELPED CREATE are now destroying her son's life.

    He does not deserve this injustice – but she is reaping what she sowed.

  26. I am shocked at these comments. Some of them are so uninformed and hurtful, I am embarrassed for the Elephant community. And I am also shocked that there is no one who works at a rape crisis center, no researcher, no one at all that is going to speak about how this article speaks to and reinforces every stereotype and myth there is about rape itself.

    This comment section has reinforced the exact environment that makes it so difficult to anyone who has been assaulted to come forward. I am the only person who has challenged the author (albeit not very articulately) and am racking up the negative signs. However the readers who suggest that the author is getting what she deserves because she believed women should have a voice and have control over our own bodies and because she was a "feminist" are racking up + signs.

    Where is the compassion and discriminate wisdom? Yes, there are men who are falsely accused, yes there are ambiguities that become confused incidents. Yes there are mental ill and women with personality disorders who make false charges. Yes there are asinine incidents with 5 years olds kissing that become labeled sexual harassment.

    But NO these are not the majority of reported rapes. The dynamic is not one where it is cushy and advantageous for a woman to make a claim.

    • memomachine says:


      Isn't it? Mary Winkler shot her husband in the back with a shotgun, fled the state and yet she hardly spent any time in prison and even got a free house for it all.

      Yeah that's suffering that is.

    • Kratch says:

      "And I am also shocked that there is no one who works at a rape crisis center,"

      You mean, aside from the author herself? Or did you miss that part in your rush to condemn her son?

      "This comment section has reinforced the exact environment that makes it so difficult to anyone who has been assaulted to come forward."

      many women who have been assaulted AGREE with many of the comments on this board. You will find that those who have truly suffered sexual assault will deem false accusers amongst the worst humans out there, just above their own attackers. After all, it is those making false accusations that make it far more difficult to be believed, and not those who acknowledge false accusations exist. Your refusal to acknowledge false accusers, and your lack of sympathy for the victims of these accusers, who often suffer very similar emotional damage as rape victims themselves, not to mention the financial and career damage, shows you to be more interested in hurting the men then seeing justice done. If false accusations are recognized for what they are, and true false accusers are tried and convicted (using due process), that lends credibility to those who actually do come forward. But you oppose such an idea. You oppose protecting innocent men, and you oppose holding spiteful women to account. And that speaks a lot more about you then it does about the subject matter at hand.

  27. WuzzaDem says:

    Do feminists realize how many conservatives they’ve created?

    While there are so many good reasons to reject the trainwreck that is collectivism, Feminism is the kick start for many well-intended, emasculated men, the kind who feel so comfortable in Boulder. Until Feminism pulls out their big gun & accuses the sap of rape or some other sex crime.

    Fortunately I never had those big guns turned at me. I just grew weary of navigating the dangerous shoals in the giant gulf between what feminist women say they want & what they really want.

    If Leftists could lie so big about something as basic as male female relationships, I wondered as a young Boulder SNAG (sensitive new age guy), what else might the Left be lying about?

    Thus my journey away from the Left began.

  28. eagle says:

    The "false Rape society" has a wealth of accumulated false rape accusations for those interested in studying them.

  29. Ellen says:

    I am deeply disturbed by this dialogue, the attack on progressive groups perceived to have contributed to this deep societal confusion and delusion around sexual assault, and the freedom people feel to bash and make dangerously uniformed generalizations and conclusions. I am shocked. In my actual experience of treating women (which for me is far more meaningful than poorly collected statistics) who have been assaulted sexually in their life, the overwhelming majority of the assaults go unreported or do not ever get prosecuted or resolved with justice in any way. The level of trauma is staggering due to this poorly recognized crime and the impact on it's survivors. As disturbing as this article is, and the comments, it does seem to be a reflection of what survivors of assault experience, and partly explains why this crime goes so unrecognized. What a devastatingly sad commentary on our society this dialogue is.

    • KARMA MRA MGTOW says:

      So you are saying the women that lie about rape -somehow in your warped little female brain – help the women that DO NOT LIE ABOUT RAPE.

      Okkkkkkkkkkkkkay then……

  30. Robin Juhl says:

    Ellen says: “dangerously uniformed generalizations and conclusions.”

    Like the “all men are rapists” and “all sex is rape” that was so popular among the “feminists” not so long ago?

    Yes, I know what rape does, because I have grown close to two different ladies who over the years have shared their stories. But too man “feminists” give a rats behind when a man is falsely accused.

    False rape accusations, like rape, RUIN lives. The accuser’s name is withheld while the man’s is blasted. That, too, is wrong.

    Both rape and false accusation of rape should have the same punishment, once proven!

  31. atlas says:

    increasingly, i'm coming to believe that government is so supportive of feminism since it can be used as a convenient political tool that publicly can be rationalized to strip away our civil liberties, divide and conquer the sexes and families, create conditioners where even more people seek jobs, increase consumer spending and taxation, politically intimidate and financially oppress men, and vastly expand the size and power of government.

  32. Meintoo says:

    My son has been on Colorado’s sex offender registry for over 12 years – almost half his life – because of a false accusation.

    It gets worse for him as time goes on, not better.

    Time heals all wounds – except this one. A false rape accusation is the gift that keeps on giving – you can never escape the incessant punishment.

    I have had to talk him down several times over the years from ending it all. The police harassment,trying to apply for jobs, neighbors acting like Ted Bundy has just moved in next door. Barred from seeing his son from threats of another false accusation.

    I too, raised a good son. He is young, yet his life is essentially over. With all the new laws and sex offender hysteria mounting, it’s only a matter of time before he ends it, or someone ends it for him.

    I tried telling people this was happening years ago, and was met with ugly derision and even threats.

    If I knew then what I know now, I would have taken my son and fled this country – except this is getting to be a world wide epidemic.

    God help the innocent. God help those falsely accused.

  33. guest says:

    I am shocked by these comments, by Kimberly Johnson, why are you shocked? If you think that being falsely accused of rape is NOT a heinous crime, then, what?. I personally witnessed a terrible travesty of justice involving a woman who put her 2 daughters on the stand to accuse her ex-husband of YEARS of abuse (odd that nothing was ever reported), and he got dishonorably discharged from the military of 19 years lost a big piece of pension (that she would have half of) and damn near went to Leavenworth! Of course after it was all over, both daughters recanted and said their mother put them up to it (to which she admitted), and the mother served NO jail time! I bet that this man (who is now known as a sex offender by the state, and has spent a lot of time trying to get this erased from his record), really thinks it is great he has been put in the position of not being around his daughters for his protection due to false allegations. Yeah real funny.
    For far too long the specter of false allegations concerning rape/abuse/molestation has been swept under the rug, and as a result many people are adopting a "prove it" attitude, and it does suck for the people who have been raped/abused/molested. However, why does the false allegations of these charges NOT result in prison time (like 5-10 years)?
    To the author, I will say this, maybe it's time to become an advocate of jail time for ALL who are guilty of false allegations, not just women. So Kimberly, why is it so hard to understand many people are sick of being screwed around and lied about?

  34. Ashley says:

    I'm appalled by the maliciousness of these comments. As a rape survivor I am nervous to post here at all for fear of your unmitigated hatred, even though I was the victim of that crime and not the perpetrator. It saddens me that there are false reports of rape. It also saddens me that a forum to discuss our response to sexual assault has become so aggressive and blaming.

    I am disturbed if this is representative of the elephant community. I'm also disturbed that the moderator is only policing the feedback directed toward his friend.

    • meinto says:

      I too have been rape, which, unlike YOU, the idea of someone making a false accusation MAKES ME MAD!

      How can you say you have "survived" rape, then whine and complain about these responses to being falsely accused? Ad if THAT isn't a form of rape!

      Yes. Ashley. You ARE disturbed.

    • elephantjournal says:

      Ashley, can you explain your comment about the moderator only policing feedback from my friends? Who are my friends in this situation? I'm open to comments from either "side," it's not my job to police other people's opinions. I only moderate comments that don't manage to be respectful in their disagreement. I have deleted four comments here, more than a year's worth of other blogs…we're doing our best. Let me know if you see any other comments you think are rude, slanderous, unfair, vicious, and I'll look at them. ~ W.

    • john says:

      Ah, the shaming language begins….

    • TheIncredibleMoose says:

      I am personally saddened by the fact that you were hurt as you were, and offer my sympathies.

      Given my prior comments that may sound incongruous (as I'll be the first to admit) but it isn't. At least not in my opinion. There are a lot of men that would rush to the defense of a victim such as yourself (I have done so).

    • TheIncredibleMoose says:

      This article in my view is more discussing false accusations, and a political and legal climate that have made this not only possible, but encouraged. This sort of legal environment detracts from you as much as it does men. The things I had to go through to help the victim I was assisting prove her case were truly unbelievable, and in the end the guy was convicted merely for assault due to eyewitness testimony.

      I really wonder if this would have been the case if it were not for the fact that it is becoming increasingly difficult to believe the allegations, due to abuse of the system. Due further to the encouraged abuse of the system.

      Is a system where physical evidence and eyewitness testimony are required (or else the perpetrator must be assumed innocent) perfect? Far from it, and many would go unpunished, but a system in which "guilty until proven innocent" is the rule of the day will generate this kind of backlash, and only harms actual victims. This is going to get worse, not better.

      I have an issue with any group that decides that their word is to be taken at face value sans evidence and vociferously, confrontationally, ensures that this is the case.

    • TheIncredibleMoose says:

      I have an issue with the author because in my opinion, she hasn't learned a thing. Yet. I say that because this… this is what it took for her to even begin questioning her belief system. I beleive she is in a position to present the argument and apologize, not instruct. She lost that right when it took this to partially wake her up. As would I lose that right under similar circumstances.

      My sincerest sympathies for your pain.

    • Fidelbogen says:

      "It saddens me that there are false reports of rape."

      Well evidently, it doesn't "sadden" you nearly enough!

  35. david says:

    NO Kimberly, we are NOT suggesting that women should not have a voice. You are being histrionic and combative.

    We are suggesting that you are part of a political mechanism that basically assumes that men are all perps. Let's see your cred here – how long did it take you to acknowledge that the Duke rape case was a lie? Did you believe the lying stripper until the bitter end?

    Should women who lie about rape be punished?

    I know what you are thinking deep down, something like "sure a few innocent men may go to prison, but we gals have to stick together".

    Well, use guys are going to take a page from that playbook and stick together as well. All you have accomplished is to solidify my suspicion of womens' intellectual honesty on this issue.

  36. david says:


    Here's the big lesson in all this – you and your type are losing this political battle, big time. And all the whining in the world will not change that.


    I USED to believe that all those rapes were real. But I have seen so many false accusations successfully prosecuted, that I think that you are just a big dupe who listens to women craft their lies. You believe them out of an act of FAITH in your fellow women.

    There are hundreds of innocent men in prison because some emotionally-challenged women decided that he "deserved" to be punished.

    Feminists have institutionalized and made legitimate female lying.

    • elephantjournal says:

      Calling Kimberly a "type" doesn't help, either—I think the lesson from this article, if anything, is that each human being and case needs to be taken on its own terms, and not generalized, no? ~ Waylon

      • Kratch says:

        If there were consequences for those cases where an accusation is used to victimize, you may be right. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. If we can examine any number of cases, and only in the cases where a male is the violator, is justice served, then we must examine as a whole why the female victimizers walk away. That can't be done on a case by case basis until there is a system in place with which we can even do so.

  37. Jennifer says:

    Ashely, I am with you. The massive hatred on both sides of the argument is overwhelming. I also agree with Waylon at the beginning of the article where he asks that we have compassion. I believe that means compassion towards all parties. I am a victim of child-hood sexual abuse, and have been studying psychology and mental disorders in school working towards my bachelor’s so that I can counsel. I think that compassion should be extended to the men who are so horribly impacted by being falsely accused and to the women who are dealing with massive mental disorders.
    All these comments prove is that we are still separated (us against the world) which is a huge boost to our egos (by which I am referring to the yogic concept of the ego; the ego is all about survival and acts from fear, not compassion) When we react out of fear, there is no room for compassion. I believe the revolution of our society is not about fighting, or refusing to understand the other side of an argument, or reading/listening to comments with the express purpose of responding instead of understanding. The revolution of our society will come when we learn to love the unlovable and pardon the unpardonable.

    • guest says:

      Compassion huh? Well, instead of compassion why not try justice? You state that you think that compassion should be extended to men who are horribly impacted by this false accusation? Horribly impacted, try RUINED, I am not interested in the "compassion", I am interested in justice! When a person gets 'ruined" (and there are quite a few ways this happens) how do they seek redress? Are the supposed to "suck it up, and deal with it"?
      Here's a question, just what is supposed to be said to a person who is falsely accused, , and then new evidence shows this person was not guilty? What do you say, sorry, MY BAD? Really do you pay their legal bill, replace their good name, tell me what? And "us against the world", really? Then i guess YOU are the one that drew that line.
      For the people who have suffered rape/molestation/child abuse, I extend my sympathies, but, if you trash somebody wrongly, there should be a penalty for you. And the people who do this because they are mentally ill/disturbed/dazed and confused, they deserve no better than jail time if they falsely accuse someone. Harsh
      but, with an accusation like this, you had better be right.

  38. gus3 says:

    As a survivor of multiple false accusations of sexual harassment, I’ll say to the “feminists”: Welcome to the unintended consequences of your demands. By demanding more credence to the accusers, you’ve elevated the sociopaths in your ranks, at the expense of your own sons, your own flesh and blood. I hope you’re happy.

    To those not yet falsely accused, I’ll offer this advice: Expose the career “victim” quickly. Don’t let yourself be put on the defensive. Instead, put the investigators themselves (the false accuser’s tools) on the defensive, and demand impartial evidence of wrong-doing, or else a total retraction of the accusation.

    And to those women who have had to deal with real crimes, real attacks, real assaults: I’m sorry that your accounts are met with skepticism, but you have this article’s author and her ilk to thank.

    • HMLewis says:

      Multiple false accusations by multiple women? Did this all happen at once, or over the course of years? If it is the latter, then I say that maybe you should watch what you say. You may not think you were being sexual or perverse, but your words deemed otherwise.

      As someone who has been sexually harassed on a regular basis since I was 11 years old (early bloomer). I can attest that what some people say in fun, or whisper behind others backs, is certainly hurtful, uncomfortable, and is sexual harassment. And, it's not just men that do it either. In fact, the only person I ever reported for sexual harassment was a woman in the work place. In my experience, men have usually kept their harassment of me in school or out on the town.

      If however, it all happened to you at once, then I can more readily see that it was some sort of gang-up on you for some "revenge" of some sort.

      • gus3 says:

        “Multiple accusations over multiple years” translates to multiple accusations in college, where three girls (I refuse to call them by any term denoting adulthood) decided, at separate times, that my public statements, in classrooms and in the student newspaper, were offensive to their pro-victim sensibilities.

        Oh, and don’t forget the female manager eight years later, who decided that my asking her what her wonderful perfume was, constituted sexual harassment. Another career victim, only this time, I told the company they needed to show clear cause for the accusation. They couldn’t, and their HR director told the two managers involved that they had to drop the matter.

        I refuse to play the game by their rules, when those rules are designed to make me a loser by default. You say my words “deemed otherwise”? No, YOU deemed my words otherwise, without even knowing what those words were. That makes you complicit in their false accusations against me, equally ready as they to presume me guilty.

        The end result of that thinking, is exactly what this article is all about.

      • LSBeene says:

        Oh – gee, blame the victim huh?

        Since you were an early bloomer, by your logic, since you were harrassed by several people over several years, the common denomintor is YOU. Maybe you were showing too much skin and it was your fault?

        My comment is ludicrous isn't it? THAT is how ridiculous your comment was.

        The problem is that so many women in our society have been taught a one sided form of "being harrassed" that makes them "feel" harrassed.

        • LSBeene says:

          And how ridiculous is that? God forbid all the catty degrading snotty snakry and demeaning comments women make to OTHER WOMEN were counted as harrassment : few women would survive in the workplace …. would they.

          Awful nice to sit in the "cat bird's" seat – nice safe and secure in the knowledge that those accusations will never be brought against you, huh?

          Imagine the situation, being reversed, that any outfit you wore that showed off your assets was considered sexual harassment, and it was completely subjective. Your career could be destroyed by any man (or spiteful or jealous woman) who decided they didn't like you for any reason – and even if proved false – you'd be out of a job, and nothing would happen to them.

          How'd that feel?

          Nice empathy you got going there HMLewis.

    • YesuDas says:

      Wait a minute, gus3: actual victims accounts have always been met with skepticism–that's how the victim mentality was able to gain traction in the first place.

  39. HMLewis says:

    I think it is important to note, that while there are certainly false accusations of rape in which there was no rape (or assault). Some of the instances that are falling under this supposed 60% seem to be cases in which the wrong person was accused, not cases in which nothing happened. This doesn't make a woman a liar. If someone is later exonerated by DNA evidence, because the technology is not available before, it does not mean that the woman lied about the rape, but instead misidentified her attacker. The incidence of misidentification, as in any crime, is highly elevated when they perpetrator is of different race than the victim and/or witness. Studies have shown that people often, maybe even the majority of the time, misidentify a suspect when that suspect is a different race. It doesn't make an accuser a liar.

    • guest says:

      I don't doubt for a second that you are correct about the mis-identification. However, if t really does
      no good once the accused gets "into the system". Why is there NOT a vehicle for erasing these wrongful charges form "the system" and all other related systems? Exactly, how do you safeguard the falsely accused, the damage has been done.
      And as for punishment, i think it SHOULD happen in provable cases, but I doubt it will happen. For false accusations there should be jail time, because if this is all about justice for the person who is raped/molested, why should there not be justice for the falsely accused. Even if exonerated the falsely accused will bear the stain of this more than likely the rest of their life. Rape should be punished harshly, but should false accusations.

      • TheIncredibleMoose says:

        It's presently necessary to punish false accusations because they result in the falsely accused losing their employment and being listed as a sex offender (at least those are the two that come immediately to mind). You could punish a lying accuser as deterrence. Or you COULD remove the reason that false accusations are so devastating. Either way works for me.

    • Render says:

      Actually, the 60% number comes from the military, if I recall correctly. You see, they aren't allowed to refuse a polygraph. The 60% number of false accusations is because of the number of recanted accusations when faced with a polygraph demand.

      • HMLewis says:

        Since the author failed to cite her statistics as she went along, I didn't know where the 60% came from. It was made to seem that it was something that happened in society in general. There may be something about the military culture that leads to these elevated cases of false accusations. Or that lead women to recant. But, I imagine that having a polygraph about something like this, or retelling the experience when something did in fact happen, to a bunch of unsympathetic military men, would render someone extremely nervous, upset (what have you) and lead to some really wild polygraph results.

        I know from male friends who were in the military the way some women are treated. And, it's not pretty.

    • LSBeene says:

      Good freaking Lord HMLewis. What the heck!?

      A wrong person is named – by WHOM!? A lottery? Lightning strike? Roulette wheel?

      No the person who named them is the person responsible for what happens to the man who is arrested, named in the paper, and locked up.

      "Gee, sorry, you kinda looked like him" isn't a defense.

      And, once AGAIN – were it YOUR life that was being torn apart to carelessly …. well golly, maybe you'd care. Seek help.

    • guest says:

      Good God! That poor teacher. This is a perfect example of a travesty of justice. This man and his family have been royally screwed over by his employer, the whole investigative process, and the accuser. This is a stain that will never go completely away, and on top of it all, his employer sure comes across as having an agenda to get rid of him. Cowards, nothing but gutless cowards, all of the ones involved who put this family through this.
      Now, with the above being said, exactly who will pay for this screw-up, the child (not a chance, nor her parents), the cops/prosecutor (that will be a cold day in hell), his employer for screwing him around (unlikely, unless they really get stupid and he gets a good lawyer) and then the TAXPAYER will foot the bill for their mistakes.
      More peoples lives/reputations screwed over, and, with his legal bill and gutless employers game playing this is not over for this family. I guess that "nobody really" is responsible.
      Here is a start, sue the parents, that's right, sue the parents. As they are legally responsible for the underage child, let them get drug through the system and face the consequences/legal bills, just like this teacher and his family, but I sincerely doubt that will happen. Unfortunately, unless somebody takes them to task, then you can forget about personal responsibility.

  40. Paul Elam says:

    I am sorry to hear of your troubles, especially for your son. As a writer in the men’s movement one of the first pieces I wrote was an appeal to women to consider the fact that misandric feminism would not spare their sons or other men they love.


    This is not an “I told you so.” It is a “I wish you had listened.”

    I hope, through the difficulties you now face, that you keep working to help other people listen.

  41. Eoghan says:

    You say you spent time fighting for a womans right to be believed and organizing take back the night rallies…. the reason that women are treated with suspicion is that women lie about rape, abuse and victim hood, take back the night works by presenting a false and exaggerated reality about rape, in other words feminists groups lie about rape to the public.

    The famous 2% or rape accusations are false, is also another feminist lie.

    A. The Overwhelming Consensus
    One highly respected legal academic, elected by her peers as
    president of the prestigious Association of American Law Schools,
    recently reported that “the overwhelming consensus in . . . research
    relying on government data is that false reports account for only
    about 2 percent of rape complaints.”
    It is indisputably true that,
    largely through the efforts of legal dominance feminists, there now
    exists a consensus among legal academics that only two percent of
    rape complaints are false.
    This purportedly empirical statement is
    ubiquitously repeated in legal literature. Dozens of law review
    articles reiterate that no more than one in fifty rape complaints is
    This empirical fact, however, is an ideological fabrication.

    If feminism wasn't to put the idea that women lie about rape and abuse to bed, a better approach would be to go after the women that do lie, and not lying about rape in order to achieve its goals.

  42. AntZ says:

    Hello karma.

    As you know, my mother is a bigoted sexist feminist. She and her coven of man-haters cooked up countless ways to humiliate and dehumanize men — and then they tested their cruelties on their male children.

    I would welcome any one of these horrible women, if they chose to renounce thier hate movement and fight for the MRM.

    This is a war in which we MRM have far fewer soldiers than the enemy. We cannot afford to be picky.

    • Kratch says:

      Agreed. It is unfortunate that it requires a personal tragedy for her to see the truth, but in fairness, it appears a personal tragedy is what blinded her to it to begin with. That factor should not be ignored.

  43. […] now says she was naive to believe that women don’t lie about rape. Writing on a blog called The Elephant she […]

  44. Quartermain says:

    This is one of the biggest reasons, more and more men are withdrawing from women, and going their own way.

    When it becomes to men that interactions with women carry an overwhelming amount of risk with very extreme minimum of reward, more and more withdraw leading to a gulf between the sexes that may never be bridged.

  45. LeeReynolds says:

    The problem here is not that women are bad, or that men are bad, but that our society has been poisoned by a flavor of Marxism that seeks to divide people up and set us at war with one another.

  46. jillian says:

    i worked as an investigator for a very large public defender's office this past summer in which i sat in on a particular rape trial. our client was the man who had been accused of rape– his nephew was the one who accused him. my job was really fascinating because it put me at odds with my own stances; on several occasions, we represented men accused of rape. in this case–the one with the uncle/nephew–our client was completely innocent. he was found innocent. which brings me to my point: the conviction rate for rape is extremely low. for accusations of rape for a person that a woman has known for more than 24 hours, the conviction rate is only 35%. (good article here on statistics: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27825997/ns/health-wo

  47. david says:

    By the way, we only need to win over a majority of the men to change the political climate.

    We do not need single woman to side with us, even though there are many traditional women who fully acknowledge that feminism has destroyed the character of women and made them too risky to marry.

    Why am I so confident? Because I know that I can count on most feminists to maintain their stubborn, foolish attitude come what may. The inability or unwillingness of feminists to show even one ounce of conciliatory behavior means that they will eventually go too far and lose the support of all but the most willingly deluded.

    To all you women who keep falsely accusing men of "hate". You are no better than women who falsely accuse of rape:

    You have no moral code other than the desire to win at all costs. Men know that about you know and will avoid you, because you lack honor.

  48. If you get to be anonymous, then so do I says:

    What gets me is not just the false rape accusation.

    It’s when I read a little deeper into this, and saw what had actually happened with the son she raised, the son called a “beautiful strong man” who was “sensitive to the needs of women”.

    He was being used as a Small Emergency Backup Guy and emotional tampon by a bipolar woman, and after a couple of months (months!) of “dating” her, he tried to break out of the friend zone, and all hell broke loose.

    I’m sorry, Ms., but you didn’t raise a “beautiful strong man”. You raised a cripple. I know you love him and wanted the best for him, but you have wronged him grievously.

    You spent too much time worrying about the wrongs he might commit, rather than about the wrongs he might suffer. You have taught him not to assert himself, not to stand up for himself, not to be a man.

    This is why he has to date emotional cripples. Because healthy women want healthy men, masculine men who will challenge them, and engage their femininity, not “sensitive nice guys” who “understand their needs”. Healthy women want a playmate, not a therapist.

    Men like your son are unable to mate, or must scrape the bottom of the barrel, because women don’t respect them. Your son is dating a bipolar woman precisely because only a woman who needs that much niceness is willing to put up with the lack of assertiveness and of even (sexual) aggression that comes with it.

    Feminism has begun to eat itself because the men that it has made are not attractive, even to feminists.

    The fact is that this “on again, off again boyfriend who didn’t treat her very well” is more attractive to this woman than your son is. He may treat her badly sometimes, but his ability to assert himself appeals to her instinctive attraction responses in ways that your son cannot… or rather, is afraid to.

    This is your fault. You treated your son like a potential problem, hazard, or risk, because he was born with a penis. You were more concerned about him than for him. You were so worried that he might become a hammer, that you made him into a nail.

    You betrayed your own flesh and blood in the name of an abstract philosophy.

    If your eyes were open, you might be able to help undo the damage. By telling him that you were wrong. By telling him that macho is a Good thing. By telling him that masculine power built civilization, and sustains it, and that real, healthy, beautiful, admirable women are drawn to, rather than repelled by, it. You could tell him that no doesn’t always mean no.

    But I don’t think you are strong and secure enough to do that

  49. Jean says:

    This is a tragic story (and one that has attracted rather a lot of embittered people), but it is also tragically common.

    Please do check out the False Rape Society, avoiding some of the more inflammatory commentary that it attracts. They aren't reactionary hotheads, and they aren't pushing an adversarial stance.

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