“Women don’t Lie.” ~ Anonymous

Via on May 9, 2011

This article comes via the mother of a longtime friend of mine, who I and many of us know to be a gentle bear of a man, far kinder and sweeter than me or just about anyone I know..! We here at elephant are happy to support this important dialogue. I would only ask that we conduct any discussion in a respectful manner, given the many painful and troubling questions it invites. We must all remember that while you and I are free to bike around and work and eat lunch and take our dogs for walks, friends of ours may be stuck in similar situations as the below. Right or wrong, this is a situation that calls for compassion and insight. ~ Waylon Lewis, ed.

I cannot tell you my name because what I am about to talk about is an ongoing legal matter. I will tell you that I am a feminist. That I fought for the rights of women to be believed. I worked for a rape crisis center in the 80s. I helped organize and participated in Take Back the Night events. I am friends with therapists and activists who have worked tirelessly for the rights of women and children. I was sexually abused as a child, and it defined my life for a number of years.

I am also a mother. I have raised a beautiful son, now a beautiful, caring man. He is honorable and strong. He has a deep spiritual practice. He is a man sensitive to the needs of women. Because of my involvement in “the movement” and because at some point he became aware of my own painful history, he is empathetic to women who have been abused.

Last year a woman, we’ll call her Sarah, accused my son of attempted sexual assault. She said, she thinks he tried to rape her. She and my son had been dating for a couple of months, but mostly they were consoling each other, I think. He, brokenhearted over the recent breakup of a long term relationship, she, confused over her on again, off again boyfriend who didn’t treat her very well.

This woman was also feeling a lot of conflict between her purported Christian beliefs and being attracted to two men. Discussions with her therapist didn’t help because, as she told my son, (let’s call him Robert), the therapist said, “what’s wrong with being attracted to two men?” But she couldn’t deal with that, and came to Robert’s house and told him she didn’t want to see him anymore. It wasn’t quite as clear cut as that because she lay down on the bed with Robert and there was flirting and fondling before she came to her decision. When she did, Robert agreed, and got up, walked her to the door. They hugged and he walked her to her car.

I know a lot of this because my son and I are friends. He had reservations about this relationship and had voiced his concerns to me. Sarah had told him that her father had abused her as a child and she had been in therapy for a long time. She had been on serious medications for bi-polar disorder for most of that time. Last summer while they were dating, she decided to get off of her meds. She told Robert she was experiencing blackouts. “Is that normal?” she would ask him. She had exhibited some strange behavior through the course of their relationship, but he had great empathy. I think seeing this reflected his own damaged soul and mine. But he was relieved when she called it off.

I have talked to therapists about bi-polar disorder, the meds that treat it and what happens when a person goes off those meds without a doctor’s supervision. None of it is good. One therapist I talked to said that false accusations skyrocket when someone decides to go cold-turkey. But because of rape shield laws that have been in place since the early 80s and because of defense lawyers’ fear of seeming to be “victim bashing,” these things more than likely will not be brought up. Nor can we bring up her litigious nature and her perception that a lot of other people, including a massage therapist, are out to hurt her.

That was the last of it for a month and then she began to think that Robert had ‘tried’ to rape her. She contacted the police. A policewoman wired her up and had her call Robert at 9pm one night. I have seen the transcript of that call and through the words on the page you can feel her desperation as she begs Robert to admit to something, anything that will “prove” her allegations.

You can hear Robert’s bewilderment as he denies over and over again her false accusations. At one point, he calls her sweetie (as he calls all his close friends), “Sweetie, I know you’re in pain.”

Despite no evidence, despite the fact that she is obviously a troubled woman, despite other attempts by her in the past to accuse people of hurting her in some way, despite her own admissions of wanting to sue others still, despite my son’s spotless record and the support of myriad women who have known him for years, the state has chosen to pursue this “case.”

If you think that women don’t lie to get back at men, how naive can you be? Yet we live in a culture of “women don’t lie,” a culture fostered by women’s groups since the 70s. A culture I helped create and support. A philosophy I believed.

Because why would women lie? The process of coming forward, going through the legal system was so horrific, so humiliating, why in the world would a woman put herself through it?

But that was then. Then, sexual abuse was hidden and women were maligned and humiliated if they dared come forward. And strong, brave women stood up for the rights of their children and themselves.

Now there are women’s groups with a strong political voice. There are women in political office, policewomen, and so on. Men and women now are predisposed to believe women when they accuse someone of rape. It is sometimes a knee jerk reaction that we have not evaluated for its veracity. We have not wanted to hear that women sometimes lie. The system has supported all women even those who lie. They’ve made it easy for them. If it is proven that a woman has lied, they are not prosecuted. They are at most sent to counseling. And being a “victim” can be intoxicating to some. It can let them off the hook for being responsible for their own actions.

But who is going to protect our sons? We who were on the front lines in the 70s when things were bad for women, we have raised good sons. Men we are proud of. Who will stand up for them?

I am now appalled to think that I was one of these women who thought that women don’t lie…and where there smoke there’s always a fire. Despite having raised a beautiful son, I was a sexist. Then I started doing research. There have been studies done since the 80s citing the percentage of rape allegations that are false.  Some studies say as high as 60%. People who have been dealing with this for years have tried to tell us that women do lie. But we haven’t wanted to hear.

(I will quote these studies but will not footnote them. They are listed at the end of this article.)

In a 1996 study published by the U.S. Department of Justice, “Convicted by Juries, Exonerated by Science” Peter Neufeld and Barry C Scheck co-founders of the Innocence Project stated:

“Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing… These percentages have remained constant for 7 years.”

Colorado’s own Craig Silverman, a former Denver DA and a zealous prosecutor of rapists, was also critical of what he calls the “politically correct victims advocate’s view” held by many prosecutors who want to “always believe the woman.” Silverman states:

“During my time as a prosecutor who made case filing decisions, I was amazed to see all the false rape allegations that were made to the Denver Police Department.  It was remarkable and surprising to me.  You would have to see it to believe it.  Any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes that there is. A command officer in the Denver police sex assaults unit recently told me he placed the false rape numbers at approximately 45 percent.”

Feminist rhetoric has merely replaced the old stereotypes. Now instead of being humiliated and scorned when we come forward, we are welcomed with an all-encompassing “Women Don’t Lie.”

“Due to the institutionalization of feminist ideology within the legal system – along with the political correctness that pervades our society – a lot of men have been defamed, imprisoned and/or fined due to the false accusations that were made against them by women.  For this reason, a lot of Divorce lawyers encourage their female clients to falsely accuse their husbands of rape, child abuse and/or domestic violence.” – Aaron Larsen

We have systematically refused to consider the possibility that women lie. We have even attacked those who wanted to discuss the possibility. Law professor Alan Dershowitz reports that he was accused of sexual harassment for discussing in his law class the possibility of false rape allegations. Some colleges with speech codes have equated talk of false rape allegations with “discriminatory harassment.”

Why would women lie?

Why wouldn’t women lie? They lie to protect themselves, to alleviate guilt, or because they are delusional. They lie because they can. For all the reasons that people lie, women lie.

“Empirical evidence does not support the widespread belief that women are extremely unlikely to make false accusations of male sexual misconduct. Rather the research on accusations of rape, sexual harassment, incest and child sexual abuse indicates that false accusations have become a serious problem. The motivations involved in making a false report are widely varied and include confusion, outside influence from therapists and others, habitual lying, advantages in custody, disputes, financial gain and the political ideology of radical feminism.” – Frank S. Zepezauer

But there is another reason women lie about rape. Rape is a deeply personal crime. Some women even harbor rape fantasies. Falsely accusing a man of rape can be deeply satisfying because it is sexual and even romantic. And it cuts to the heart of a male/female relationship. In his paper, Patients Who Make False Accusations, Dr. Richard C. W. Hall cites a particular case in which:

“We talked to a young borderline woman, who reported that she had made allegations to her county medical society that her psychiatrist had been sexually inappropriate with her. She reported that she was angry at him, that he had not given her the attention that she wanted, and that she made up the charges to get even. Although she candidly reported that he had never touched her, she said that she ‘was sure that he wanted to.’”

I have watched my son for 40 years. I have watched him grow from boy to man. I have seen him in his interactions with women and men. I have marveled at his sensitivity, his empathy. Many times I have thought, “Wow, he is a feminist’s dream. A man who listens. Who cares. Who is strong and deeply spiritual. A man who can be a woman’s friend. Who can comfort another in time of need. He is truly a good and decent man.

But if you would discount the word of a mother, what about all the women in his life? The girlfriend that has known him since high school to his most recent girlfriend? All have come forward on his behalf. All have remained his steadfast friend even after their romantic relationship ended.

And what of the word of their parents who have come forward? Including two psychotherapists who work with battered women. What of the casual dating partners and friends from far and wide, both male and female who have all come forward on his behalf? They too have spoken out for him. This man is not capable of doing this thing.

Never have I been to visit him that someone did not congratulate me on raising such a fine man.

Our good men are being harmed. This good man is being harmed.

“Due to immense pressure from rabid feminists, the state was placed in the position of convicting as many accused rapists as possible, or face an onslaught of abuse from second-wave-feminists….” – Aaron Larsen

The current climate in Colorado appears to be: Try them all. Let God sort them out. I have been told that there are political reasons for that. Reasons that have nothing to do with the validity of a particular case but with the fear of an attack by an opponent in an election. The District Attorney is an elected official. But doesn’t the state have better things to do than try meritless cases? Isn’t there a voice of reason somewhere?

Dr. Richard C. W. Hall in his paper, Patients Who Make False Allegations, The Role of the Forensic Psychiatrist, has created a checklist for the evaluation of patients’ allegations. It follows:

1)    Is accuser creditable?

2)    Is story consistent and believable?

3)    Is there a motive for revenge or mischief?

4)    Have other allegations been made previously?  Does a pattern of allegations exist?

5)    Has the patient been counseled in their charges by some professional who has a vested interest?

6)    Is there any physical evidence of misdeed?

7)    What is the reputation of the accused?

8)    How does the accused respond to the charges?

9)    Are there issues of custody, property settlement, divorce, or suit involved?

10) Is there a history of personality disorder – antisocial, narcissistic, borderline – in either party?

11) Is there a history of alcohol or substance abuse in either party?

If the state were to apply this or any reasonable checklist to the allegations against my son, this “case” would have gone in the trash bin months ago, we wouldn’t be out thousands of dollars, countless sleepless nights and the feeling that the system simply doesn’t work.

If anyone can accuse a good man of something like this and cause him so much grief, then what has our system become? The terms rape, sexual assault, sexual abuse have become so ubiquitous as to be meaningless (although still very much emotionally charged).  We have cast such a wide net that laws and statutes that were devised to protect us from the worst of the worst, the serial rapists, sexual predators and pedophiles are now being used to punish men who urinate near school yards or a boyfriend who takes the arm of his inebriated girlfriend to get her out of a party.

An article titled Feminists Fallacies Hurt Police Training states:

“If every incident between a man and a woman can be framed as a prelude to an atrocity, then all men can be branded as predators. The error in logic, that all men are potential rapists, allows feminists to link attitudes and behaviors for which there is NO connection and allows them to condemn the mild-mannered man given to the occasional caustic comment to sharing an axis with O.J. Simpson.”

That is not to say that there are not terrible crimes committed against women and children every day. According to Believe Her! The Woman Never Lies Myth, Frank Zepezauer says:

“This growing gap – between the  anguish suffered by the victims of traditionally defined sex crimes and what is suffered by victims of ideologically defined crimes – suggests that the crisis we face is not the result of a sexual misconduct epidemic but of the crisis mentality itself, an ever more hysterical vision of a ‘rape culture.’”

This hysterical crisis mentality has created a gap between our awareness of the now highly visible victims of sexual misconduct and the almost invisible victims of false allegation. The lesser known victims have their own stories to tell, enough to reveal another long ignored injustice that demands remediation. False allegations of sexual misconduct have deprived a rapidly growing number of men and women of their reputations, their fortunes, their children, their livelihood and their freedom. Wasting the time and money of families and communities, and have left some so desperate that they have taken their own lives.

Zepezauer concludes:

“For that reason, in the current revision of our sexual misconduct code, we must retain as a guiding premise the realization that women can lie because we know that, for several reasons, more than a few women have lied, more often than idealogues have admitted….too often, in any event, to be ignored by our jurisprudence, feminist or otherwise.”

It’s time that we admitted what is right in front of us. Not every woman tells the truth and not every man is a potential rapist.

Please someone, tell the State of Colorado.

~

Sources used in this article:

MND, mensnewsdaily.com, “During My Time as a Prosecutor I was Amazed to See all the False Rape Allegations that Were Made.”

North Shore News, Alana Mercer, “Feminist Fallacies Hurt Police Training?

Men’s Rights Online, Aaron Larsen, “False Accusation Issues”

Dr. Richard C. W. Hall Publications, Dr. Richard C. W. Hall, “Patients Who Make False Allegations”

Salon Newsreel, Cathy Young, Who Says WomenNever Lie About Rape?”

FoxNews.com, Wendy McElroy, “False Rape Accusations May Be More Common Than Thought”

IPT Journal, Frank S. Zepezauer, “Believe Her! The Woman Never Lies Myth”

Richardwebster.net, Richard Webster, “False Allegations: End This Cruel Injustice”

AND

The Witchcraft Trials in Salem:  A Commentary by Douglas Linder

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312 Responses to ““Women don’t Lie.” ~ Anonymous”

  1. elephantjournal says:

    To be clear, I don't mind opinions either way. We're all about dialogue, genuine open dialogue. We are not about insulting, mean, degraded, vicious, anonymous commenting. http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/08/be-nice-or

    Let's keep this intelligent, constructive, we can allll do it, whatever our worth opinions.

    Yours,

    Waylon

    • Hmph says:

      Apparently not. This is one of the most vicious set of comments I've ever read. I'm truly disturbed by this article and particularly by the hostility and aggression in the comments. I hope someone steps in with clarity, intelligence, wisdom, compassion, and balance because from what I can see, this is causing far more harm than good.

      I understand people wanting to be anonymous. People are getting slaughtered.

      • elephantjournal says:

        People would get less "slaughtered" if any of you had the guts to stand behind your own words. ~ Waylon

  2. rachel says:

    Okay, well, no one is saying women never make false accusations in rape cases (the Duke one comes to mind), and this woman and her family seem to be going through a horrible ordeal BUT, women, more so than they make false claims, still face… EXTRAORDINARY victim blaming (like the NYTimes talking about what a child who was gang raped was wearing). Sexual assault and rape have by no means lost their meaning as words or actions, even as false accusations hurt every woman (or man) who then must make a true "accusation." If anything, the popularity of rape jokes and acceptance of date rape culture hurt the meaning of the words that describe a horrific, traumatic event. The author has the right to her opinion, but when you, elephant journal, publish a link to the article, and ask people to outweigh negative feedback, you take an editorial standpoint that you agree with this article, which is part of the reason I no longer write for the magazine.
    For what's its worth, my feminism has nothing to do with, nor ever will, an assumption and broad generalization, such as "women never lie." I fight for equality, the end to patriarchy and misogyny, for queer rights, and i do all this to ma…ke a better future for present and future sons and daughters and every gender spectrum in between. Nor because of one case, does that change that most women attempting to charge and prosecute a rapists do not have the law or legal system on their side at all

    • Scott Robinson YesuDas says:

      Well said, Rachel–except the part about EJ's solicitation of balancing viewpoint being tantamount to agreeing with the article; as far as I can see, Waylon just wants people to be respectful rather than bestial. But about the experience of most accusers, I think you are on the mark, and appreciate your speaking up.

      • elephantjournal says:

        Thanks, YesuDas. Yes, Rachel, I'm all for respectful dialogue whatever the pov…that's the point of publishing such a work as this—there isn't enough. It's too easy to slander and insult rather than contemplate, and offer helpful words so we can get our society out of such confusion and suffering. ~ W.

    • Fidelbogen says:

      "I fight for equality, the end to patriarchy and misogyny…"

      Do you see the problem here? You are throwing feminist jargon in the faces of people who find your terminology problematic or even offensive. Not everybody is a feminist.

      The term "patriarchy" in particular, is DEEPLY offensive to a lot of people; it is a red flag word. Are you not aware of this?? We MRA types are hip to the pragmatic real-world meaning of this term: it is merely a codeword for male power. When you talk about "ending patriarchy", you are talking about ending male power, ultimately in whatever form it might appear.

      "Misogynist" is a cheap smear word that means everything and nothing — it has about the same degree of intelligence as "fascist", and far too many idiots throw this word around in lieu of actual thinking about what they are saying.

      As for "equality": just let's confine all use of that term to the realm of mathematics, OK? It is semantic garbage. It is the poison fruit of the French Revolution, and should have died with Robespierre & co. Whatever you feel you need to express via that word, see if you can't reduce it to descriptive phrases and operationalizable cases.

      So…I would advise you to drop feminist jargon from your speech, and resort to a more common vocabulary. Otherwise, you will only alienate the non-feminist sector and increase polarization.

  3. BDM says:

    The rabid misogyny exposed in these comments is breathtaking to me. Reading the article, I am only mildly concerned for my sons – that something so unlikely might happen to them. Reading the comments, I am terrified for my daughter.

    • elephantjournal says:

      I've now deleted eight comments. I hate deleting comments—we love dialogue. I do, however, not want to be responsible for providing a platform for casual, lazy hate. If you have something to offer, here, make it thoughtful, and put your name on it. ~ Waylon

  4. Scott Robinson YesuDas says:

    Vanessa and Kratch, I find myself in the awkward position of agreeing with both of you. The vitriol is sad and useless, and it is understandable as well. Hard to know how to proceed.

  5. Kratch says:

    The confusion lies in the hatred demonstrated towards feminism. Laura is showing typical feminist arrogance in believing that feminism is representative of all women. that if a man hates feminism, he hates women. She is unable to divorce the idea that feminism is an ideology made up of both men and women, but does not include all women (and in fact, 3 out of 5 UK women bellow the age of 30 actually reject the label feminism). Feminism also tends to make the mistake of believing it has a monopoly on egalitarian thought, That if one does not believe in feminism, they are not capable of believing in equality.

    • Fidelbogen says:

      "Laura is showing typical feminist arrogance in believing that feminism is representative of all women."

      She is also showing typical feminist arrogance in believing that feminism is representative of the world in general.

  6. elephantjournal says:

    Want to help balance lots of horribly mean comments? Please:

    #
    Polly Lynn Unfriend the meanies…

    #
    Karen Nelson Mangold Wow. I don't know where to start tonight.. I feel a blog post in the making though. I will definitely comment.

    #
    elephantjournal.com I've already deleted four of the worst, as per our Mean Comments Suck policy.

    #
    elephantjournal.com
    To be clear, I don't mind opinions either way. We're all about dialogue, genuine open dialogue. We are not about insulting, mean, degraded, vicioius, anonymous commenting. http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/08/be-nice-or

    #
    Polly Lynn You are filling a gap desperately needed in on going dialog of life there is not one day that goes by that as part of my experience on line I find importance in what you post …I am grateful!

    #
    Karen Nelson Mangold Dang it Waylon.. You're gonna make me have to fire up the lap top tonight aren't you? Sigh. ;)

    #
    Rachel Kavita Steele
    Okay, well, no one is saying women never make false accusations in rape cases (the Duke one comes to mind), and this woman and her family seem to be going through a horrible ordeal BUT, women, more so than they make false claims, still face… EXTRAORDINARY victim blaming (like the NYTimes talking about what a child who was gang raped was wearing). Sexual assault and rape have by no means lost their meaning as words or actions, even as false accusations hurt every woman (or man) who then must make a true "accusation." If anything, the popularity of rape jokes and acceptance of a date rape culture hurt the meaning of the words that describe a horrific traumatic event. The author has the right to her opinion, but when you, elephant journal, publish a link to the article, and ask people to outweigh negative feedback, you take an editorial standpoint that you agree with this article, which is part of the reason I no longer write for the magazine.See More

    #
    Lauren Hanna Foster What's funny, is that I didn't post to this BECAUSE I had too many wonderful things to say. I thought it would take too long. I'll write now!

    #
    Rachel Kavita Steele
    For what's its worth, my feminism has nothing to do with, nor ever will, an assumption and broad generalization, such as "women never lie." I fight for equality, the end to patriarchy and msyogony, for queer rights, and i do all this to ma…ke a better future for present and future sons and daughters and every gender spectrum in between. Nor because of one case, does that change that most women attempting to charge and prosecute a rapists do not have the law or legal system on their side at all.

    #
    Beverly Mazzarella The article made me mildly concerned for my two sons, that something so unlikely could happen to them. The sheer hostility of the comments make me terrified for my daughter.

  7. Kratch says:

    To the Author (the mother). It is unfortunate that this has happened, and your son has my sympathies, but it was necessary in order to expose the truth to you. What you may still not realize is the emotional damage your son is going to suffer, but you are in several unique positions. First of which is as a victim yourself. false accusations are a deeply personal violation, perhaps not as much so as rape itself, but far more drawn out, and far more humiliating then rape ever was. And your son will be able to benefit from your experience dealing with that turmoil.

    The next reason you are in a unique position is your years of experience as an advocate. You know what needs to be done to accomplish things, and you know the truths and the lies that have been told (though it may take you some time to sort them out. Unfortunately, you will quickly find your colleagues, the people you believed in and trusted, turning their backs, or even attacking you. You can already see it in the comments of people like Kimberly and Laura. Despite your many years of activism, this new campaign, if you choose to fight it beyond the scope of your son, will require you to start from scratch as everyone you could count on abandons you for betraying their ideology. In addition to attacks by former peers, you will also need to sustain the anger of the very men you have spent decades persecuting as predators. These will be a whole new pain added to your existing turmoil, and I can only hope you can endure it. For yourself. For your son. And for all the innocent men who could benefit from your experience and drive, should you choose to champion against the injustice suffered by men and boys.

    Just know that not all men will hate you for your past. And I wish you and your son strength to endure as both your lives fall apart in the days, months, years to come.

    Mark Neil

  8. BDM says:

    As a woman, let me say thank you.

  9. betterdeal says:

    Wonderful article. I'm glad abuse is being seen as something anyone can do, men and women, and that whenever opportunity and motive exists, some people will do it. Abusing someone by accusing them of rape is something that needs to be addressed. The systemic sexism in our legal systems needs to be confronted and abolished if we men are to be able to become fully fledged human beings without fear of punishment or ridicule for expressing our feelings in ways other than anger.

  10. [...] Hasselberger · 1 week ago That’s horrible! I have a 10year old son and your story–along with others I’ve [...]

  11. All says:

    Bravo for this article! It sheds light on a myriad of issues gone too long overlooked. The theme that stood out to me is the issue of mental illness. Those living with a mental illness face challenges that, especially in this case, are treated as delicate and almost speculative. Truth is subjective to the mentally ill and that must be taken into account in criminal cases. I was raised by a bi-polar mother and as a grown woman, speaking with her today, we lived two separate experiences when I was growing up. I remember bringing up the issue of my mother's behavior with family and friends and I was told that I needed to straighten up and be a better child; that my mother worked very hard for what we had and I should have been grateful. I let the issue go and watched my mother spiral out of control, undiagnosed, until her life was a stake. Today, life is better for both my mother and I, but in the negligence we both lost so much. I hope Robert can forgive this poor woman for what she has done and I truly hope that governments will take note of these issues.

    • Nes says:

      Why is it that when a woman does something awful it's a result of some mental illness and she needs treatment? When a man does something awful it's because men do awful things so he need punishment. Stop making excuses when women behave badly.

      • Lewis says:

        Have you not read the article? The woman making the accusation has an diagnosed mental illness. No one said that sane women never do anything awful, nor that whenever men do something it's because they are awful. But, in this case, this woman does indeed have a mental illness.

  12. Fred Sottile says:

    Here in Los Angeles, we had a task force that completed the evaluation of a backlog of thousands of DNA rape kits. The evaluators proudly exclaimed that they were able to make several cases against men as a result. No one even asked how many men were exonerated by the new evidence. In fact, the very idea of finding evidence to exonerate men was never pursued.

  13. The Shrug says:

    Well, well, well! Your son has had his consciousness raised!

  14. betterdeal says:

    Wow! So you think that when a woman says she now sees that men can be victimised by the system which she in part helped to create, and that she wants the system and society to resolve this injustice, that calling her names and being angry at her is the right response?

    Really? This encourages what, exactly?

    • Fidelbogen says:

      This is what feminism has brought upon the world. The rage is only going to grow.

      There is a certain historical pattern which revolutions follow. It is, that when the ruling powers in a particular situation wait TOO LONG, until the situation becomes too catastrophic and the storm finally breaks out in all of its fury, then "appeasement" becomes futile. When that stage is reached, NOTHING will sate the bloodlust of the sansculottes, and the howling demand for vengeance grows and grows and spirals out of control until the tragedy finally runs its course.

      The wise policy is to undertake reform early, BEFORE things pass a critical stage. (E.G. the ruling class of Russia wisely liberated the serfs circa 1860, because they wisely knew just how savage matters would become if a full scale peasant war eventually broke out. Possibly the example of the French Revolution guided their policy. They were years ahead of the curve in their thinking!)

      The question is, have we entered the radical 'sansculotte' stage yet vis a vis feminism? Have we passed the critical threshold at which appeasement or reform measures can no longer stem the out-of-control spiralling effect?

      I do in fact believe we have reached that stage. I believe that the feminist "powers that be", in their overweening hubris, have sacrificed their early "window of opportunity" for reformist measures, and that from here on out an anti-feminist socio-political Jacquerie will form, which will demand progressively greater and greater retributive measures against feminism and feminists — and this will shoot straight through the roof!

      I believe that interesting times lie ahead.

  15. Razor says:

    Sic semper tyrannis.

  16. Lisa says:

    Waylon, and other EJers, I am really disturbed by these comments. I hope that this is an aberration, and not a foreshadowing of what I can expect to find at Elephant Journal. I applaud you publishing the article, and I don't advocate censorship – but there's alot of hate here that I never expect to see at EJ. I know I will get reamed for writing this, but I want you at EJ to know how upsetting it is to see this kind of "dialogue" here.
    Peace.

    • Kratch says:

      It's a foreshadowing of what you will begin to see everywhere. Good men are getting fed up with being treated like criminals based solely on our gender. The feminist movement had it's haters too, haters that got published repeatedly. The internet does not have such demanding standards for those that seek to write.

    • TheIncredibleMoose says:

      This is a foreshadowing of the world you've created by treating half the population as though they are contemptible scum. Hate bounces.

      Why are you acting so surprised? Any time one group of people starts believeing they're better than everyone else, the result is always the same.

      • elephantjournal says:

        Hate bounces? Then don't bounce back. I've deleted more rude comments on this post than in the past year, total. I don't mind disagreement, or any of these opinions, as long as thoughtfully, intelligently, respectfully expressed.

        We don't have to become dbags when we disagree with those we view as wrong, hey!? ~ Waylon

  17. ancalgon says:

    I totally agree with Kimberly Johnson or what ever her name is. Women *never* lie about rape, and should be able to report it when they wish, as they wish, and should be able to change their mind at will about it at any moment when they are having intercourse. They should also be able to go into shady neighbourhoods wearing skimpy clothing, and NOT be raped (where rape is defined as anything from catcalls to penetration. Anyone who rapes said woman (rape as defined earlier) should be sentenced to death, or at the very least, prison for life. Only then will women be strong, powerful, and confident enough to report all the rape occuring in society of thousands of men staring at their half-exposed breasts.

  18. [...] as a problem with men generally. Well, women aren’t morally superior, their flaws just vary slightly. But don’t even think about drawing general conclusions about the moral worth of a gender from [...]

  19. Erik S says:

    You might also have mentioned Stephen Baskerville's "Taken Into Custody"
    (The War Against Fathers, Marriage, and the Family), of which here is an excerpt:
    http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2008/06/witch-hunt

    "The regime of involuntary divorce, forcible removal of children, coerced child support, and knowingly false accusations is now warping our entire legal system, undermining and overturning principles of common law that have protected individual rights for centuries. The presumption of innocence has been inverted"

  20. FUBAR says:

    All you folks shocked – SHOCKED – by the “misogynist” comments: Rape is a serious crime. You can go to jail for many years. Men are treated as second-class citizens in this area of the law, and in family law. When it’s clear that they aren’t getting justice, people tend to be very upset.

    You want the misogynist attitudes to go away? Work for justice.

    Isn’t that what started the hateful feminist rhetoric? Lack of justice? See if you can get the beam out of your own eye, for crying out loud.

  21. McGuire says:

    "[Sarah] came to Robert’s house and told him she didn’t want to see him anymore. It wasn’t quite as clear cut as that because she lay down on the bed with Robert and there was flirting and fondling before she came to her decision. When she did, Robert agreed, and got up, walked her to the door. They hugged and he walked her to her car."

    The guy made a serious mistake in the first place by dating a woman who claimed that she had a history as an abused child, and who had a current history of mental illness. As soon as he found that out, he should have left her immediately, and never taken another call or text from her. Instead, he keeps the relationship going (even though he has reservations), and then gets into bed with her, at which point she breaks up with him.

    Never mind that bed is not the best place to have this kind of conversation. But it should never have gotten to that point in the first place.

    Sad to say, but "Robert" sounds like a typical "nice guy," one who didn't trust his gut (or common sense.) Your right hand is way better than dealing with both mental illness and drug-withdrawal psychosis.

  22. guest says:

    I think its time we pass a law, that anyone who knowingly falsely accuses someone of a crime, shall be guilty of said crime and all punishments shall be imposed.

    • guest says:

      "…..I think its time we pass a law, that anyone who knowingly falsely accuses someone of a crime, shall be guilty of said crime and all punishments shall be imposed….."

      That's a great idea now, and it was a great idea 3300 years ago —

      "The judges must make a thorough investigation, and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against a fellow Israelite, then do to the false witness as that witness intended to do to the other party. You must purge the evil from among you." Deuteronomy 19:18-19

      Interestingly enough, history's first recorded false rape accusation (which led to an undeserved prison sentence) occurred 3700 years ago; see Genesis 39:7-20 for the account.

      Truly, there is nothing new under the sun.

  23. Mtkennedy says:

    Exactly. I have seen similar cases for years. A high school teacher in Orange County CA scolded two girls for not changing clothes for gym class. They concocted a fondling story and ruined his life. Eventually, these 14 years old girls admitted they lied or he would be in prison. That was 15 years ago.

  24. Rev. Mark says:

    Reading several pages of comments, I find the rhetoric and vitriol being spewed appalling. I think one of the largest problems I’ve noticed is the “Labels” that are being thrown around willy nilly and with abandon. Misogyny, Misandry, Feminists, Feminazi, Patriarchy, Bi-Polar and others. How about this? A young woman made claims against a young man, her claims are believed to be false, by the young man’s mother, however they must be proven to be false. Until then the young man is in the hands of the Criminal Justice System. If the young woman’s claims are proven to be false, she should be held accountable for them. That is the real issue here. The lack of accountability. When a person can make specious claims against another and has no repercussions from their actions when they are proven specious, we have a problem. The problem being the system of Checks and Balances has been skewed to favor those who would make such claims, against those who must defend themselves from them. We need to re-balance the scales of justice so those making specious, false, and malicious claims can be held accountable for their actions. Until such time as that happens, this young man’s story will be the story of many others.

    Now where are the labels? I laid out the facts as I saw them. I did not use “Labels” to do so. However many Men and Women of varying beliefs hold on to those labels with a passion. They throw them out as a weapon to wound others. Where, in a proper system of Checks and Balances, do those fit? They do not. So men and women need to stop using those “Labels”. They only obfuscate the issue behind rhetoric, jargon and even hatred, instead of clearing the air so a real dialog can begin.

    Rev. Mark L. Anderson

    Fulton, TX

    • Bob says:

      "A young woman made claims against a young man, her claims are believed to be false, by the young man's mother, however they must be proven to be false."

      Really? Well, that's part of the problem. You see, for every other crime, the person making the claims must prove that the claims are true. Only with this crime is the accused required to prove his innocence.

      With "logic" such as that, I feel deep pity for your parishioners.

    • 33MIKE says:

      No her statements do not need to be proven false, her accusations have to be proven true. Oh but that is the probllme MEN ARE ASSUMED TO BE GUILTY!!!

  25. Jennifer says:

    That woman who sued your son probably wasn't lying. I would bet that she and many of the other women who made false rape claims had actually been raped or sexually assaulted when they were not in a position to do anything about it. She may be seeking resolution for deep, ancient wounds by claiming a lawsuit against your son, instead of the man (or men) who hurt her. What she needs is help dealing with whatever situation she is actually referring to when she says she was raped and healing so that she can let go of using litigation as a means of control.

    • Fidelbogen says:

      "What she needs is help dealing with whatever situation she is actually referring to when she says she was raped and healing so that she can let go of using litigation as a means of control. "

      Baloney. What she needs is to be prosecuted for her crime and sent to prison for a good stretch. Then, after she gets out, she can talk to a counselor about her issues if she feels like.

    • betterdeal says:

      And rapists need help dealing with whatever leads them to rape another person.

    • guest says:

      Jennifer. If you accuse someone of such a crime, you had better get the right person! Seeking resolution by accusing "someone" of the crime of rape, and not the person that committed the deed? So let me get this straight, you think that it is acceptable to accuse a person of rape when they were not the one WHO COMMITTED THE CRIME? This is acceptable to you? So, you have moved from getting the guilty party, to just "get someone/anyone"?
      Whether she has mental issues or has been hurt, is no reason to falsely accuse someone. That she needs help is very apparent, and that help should be in form of jail time, because no matter how you slice it she is the person who has made the accusation, this is HER RESPONSIBILITY Nobody else s, but hers.!

  26. betterdeal says:

    It can be addressed in several ways. Usually the starting point for a society-wide change is in society-wide debate. This article is part of that, and I applaud the author for attempting to start that process with open, honest debate.

  27. abused-but-who-cares says:

    I feel empathy for the writer of this article having grown up at the hands of an emotionally and sometimes physically abusive mother. However, it is incredulous to me that feminists can’t see (or won’t acknowledge) the damage they are causing to society until it comes to their front door. Why would that be unless there is pervasive, profound misandry operant in our culture today. In a gender equal society the idea that “women don’t lie (and men do)” would be seen as outrageous garbage. We are all human beings after all, with all the imperfections of our human kind. Feminists are not, by any means, above those imperfections. And they never has been.

    But the damage done to this unfortunate, good man will be with him emotionally for the rest of his life. It will also follow him for the rest of his life. Yesterday, women were branded with the scarlet letter of an “A”. Today, men are branded with the “tattoo” of an “R”. I work at a major airport where there is an abundance of high paying jobs demanding a high skill level. However, if a man has ever been convicted of sexual abuse of any kind the airport authority will not issue a security ID which he would need to work on the field. I’m sure that is the case with many companies in this country today.

    If feminists have gone too far in their persecution of men, there is no sign that they are ready or willing to stop.

    • TheIncredibleMoose says:

      Why would they ever stop?

      If you keep throwing bailout money at the banking industry will they suddenly grow a conscience and start lending to small US based businesses at a reasonable interest rate?

      We all need to realize something right here and right now.

      They. Will. Not. Stop.

      Ever.

      I see a lot of comments along the lines of "well… you women broke it, now ya'll have to fix it 'cause we have no legal power…"

      You are going to be waiting a VERY long time for that to happen. I suspect the sun will turn into a black hole before that ever happens.

  28. david says:

    More BS language – the woman who is "terrified" for her daughter, the histrionic and estrogen-fueled screams of misogyny.

    This is the bellowing of a bunch of spoiled brats who are losing the argument. And know it.

    Many women here are proving that they cannot engage this topic like rational adults, resorting to fear-mongering, and displays of adolescent rage and name-calling.

    Game over, gals – the guys are starting to figure you out.

    Stop your hysterical ranting for a second and think about what kind of a message you are sending to reasonable, undecided male readers here:

    You are displaying a tremendous disregard for those men falsely accused, and extending every benefit of the doubt to women. And us guys are supposed to go along with that? You think a bit of whining and foot-stamping will sway these men to your side? You're every bit as loony as crazy religious people, since you have an unwavering faith in your own unproven mythology.

    If you were smarter, you would at least make a pretense of being reasonable, instead of emotional, since this would help your argument. But you can't help yourselves, you enter the discussion with a symphony of drama and hype, undermining your credibility with most people, except for those who are swayed by emotional outbursts – in other words, other irrational, emotional crazies.

    This is what we call a "losing strategy".

  29. Individualist says:

    False accusations of rape only hurt real victims of rape.

  30. david says:

    Exactly my point-

    These women are illogical, emotional, and prone to emotional hysterics. They can't even see how they are undermining the very cause they are fighting to maintain. I probably should not even point out how they are pulling the rug out from under their own feet. As Napoleon once said "Never interrupt your enemy when he is busy making a mistake."

    To that end:

    Keep it up girls – You have my everlasting support. Never back down.

  31. AquaPiscesCuspian says:

    This article is clearly written in a biased way from a mother trying to protect her son. I think the above case is irrelevant to the matter, as the girl truly believes that she was raped, and has deep psychological issues…I do not think she is aware of the ‘lie’ or that she intentionally set out to deliberately get her ex back. What is clear is that there needs to be a reformation of the law, in cases like this the accuser’s history of mental ill health should be disclosed and investigated, especially as changes in medication co-inside with her claim of rape. This should be done by state law practice before going to court…to protect the privacy of real victims within the court system.

    But look how easily this article has opened up a very hateful bag of worms. Yes, everyone knows, male and female, that there are women who lie about being abused. I was the victim of sexual abuse myself, I told the truth and members of my family chose NOT to believe/support me. I think every case has to be looked at individually without emotional investment – as with other sensitive cases such as homicide – with level-headed judgement and fairness. I am disappointed by the responses her on this blog, clearly sexism is still powerfully engrained into many peoples psyches, just below the surface. I am also shocked that most people, both male and female cannot she the obvious bias in the article!!!!!

    Last note: the point that people blindly accept cries of rape as truthful is BS!!!! I think you can give the general population a bit more credit than that and you might just find that there are a hell of a lot more open-minded level-headed people out there than you appreciate. At the end of the day, rape claims should be taken seriously, and -then- if found to be ludicrous – discarded.

  32. [...] “Women don’t Lie.” ~ Anonymous — This article comes via the mother of a longtime friend of mine, who I and many of us know to be a gentle bear of a man, far kinder and sweeter than me or just about anyone I know..! We here at elephant are happy to support this important dialogue. I would only ask that we conduct any discussion in a respectful manner, given the many painful and troubling questions it invites. We must all remember that while you and I are free to bike around and work and eat lunch and take our dogs for walks, friends of ours may be stuck in similar situations as the below. Right or wrong, this is a situation that calls for compassion and insight. [...]

    • Meintoo says:

      This woman’s son could be punished MUCH more harshly if she maintains her “denial”.

      He is a dead man walking, and the more people who defend his innocence, and believe he did not rape the poor victim, thw worse it will go for him.

      He’s the Next Ted Bundy who can fool everyone BUT the “experts” – the “experts” being feminist advocates, of course.

      I have OFTEN spoken to women with sons, who spout off about women not having the right to vote (their gender didn’t fight, suffer or die for the right, they earned the “right by proxy”) and the disparity between what men and women earn. “YOUR son is earning more than a woman doing the same job? “OH NO! No MY son!”

      It’s ALWAYS someone else’s son that’s bad.

  33. too neat says:

    This was written by a man, and there is no indicted son with a story exactly as described. The voice is wrong. The details too neat. Real life is messier and more ambiguous. It would be far more persuasive if the author signed it, and far more supportive of "her" "son". The reason for anonymity is unconvincing. This does not mean most of the points and the overall argument are not valid— just that this letter is a fraud. Impersonating victims is common (as the author ironically points out).

    Sorry I have not been a regular reader, nor do I know Waylon Lewis. I read this because it was linked from another forum. It is powerful, persuasive writing. But it smells wrong.

    • elephantjournal says:

      Well, Sherlock, hundreds of us in Boulder know the man in question. I obviously can't prove who he is, since it's in trial, but I have the emails from his mother and obviously made sure that he and she were for real as far as I could. Whether you believe her or his version of the events is, of course, up to you and each of us. ~ Waylon

  34. too neat says:

    Aubrey
    Does it make a difference whether it is a fake? You make the point it still stimulates discussion and awareness. But what do you think of people who write purportedly nonfiction books falsely claiming to be a holocaust victim, or an American Indian child, or a drug addict, or a prostitute, etc? The defense of course is that the issues are valid and the story *could* have happened. The author vividly imagined the injustice. And yet most of us feel disgusted or cheated or think it somewhat sleazy and dishonest to claim victimhood falsely. When revealed it cheapens the real stories and provides encouragement to those who want to reject the message.

    Again, I will recant in a minute with apology if "Waylon" can persuade the author to make it a verifiable account. Otherwise this is a site where fact and fiction cannot be distinguished and I wont be visiting again.

    • Kratch says:

      I find it fascinating how you are so disturbed by the damage that this unverified story could do, in your opinion, because it "cheapens the real stories and provides encouragement to those who want to reject the message. " And yet, you say this in opposition to those who claim false accusations of rape, IE, stories that "cheapen the real stories and provides encouragement to those who want to reject the message. " are destructive. Can you not see the hypocrisy?

      • elephantjournal says:

        Too Neat, I'm happy as an editor, I'd prefer to have her name on it. When the trial is resolved, perhaps she'll allow such. As it is, I think it's admirable she's not trying to use media to curry public sentiment and opinion, support for her son, though he is much loved in this community. Again, none of that love means anything in terms of whether we should or should not believe the story of this gentle giant. I know him well and have no idea, beyond knowing his character and the fact that, apparently, his ex-gfs all are psyched to testify for him. ~ Waylon

  35. Ceer says:

    @ Anonymous

    I saw today about what this same court system is doing to our veterans. It's deeply disconcerting that the author of our original post would have ever thought of this as a good thing, much less actively work to bring it about.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_StCzStBy0&fe

  36. Richard Aubrey says:

    too neat
    Two separate issues. The story is or is not true.
    The commenters' reactions are to the story as if it were true. The commenters believe the story is true, thus their reactions are as if is true. If it were not true,their reactions would still remain as if the story were true. So we learn about the commenters.
    Ceer. I watched that. Wonder if feminists think it's a feature or a bug.

  37. guest says:

    What is sad is she only gave a sh#$ is when it happened to someone she cared about. Karma sucks.

  38. Richard Aubrey says:

    Quite obviously, this is not the first time a man has been falsely accused of rape. It is probably likely–the author seems to think so–that it is not the first time that a man has been falsely accused of rape and had the entire process enabled by the narrative framing and legal aspects promoted by feminists, including the author.
    It is, so far as we know, the first time a feminist has complained about a loved one being falsely accused of rape, in part because of the work she thought was a good idea.
    Among those who have suffered a false accusation or know someone who has or who think false accusations are a bad idea and that some feminist work has promoted such things, there is a kind of schadenfreude. Not necessarily a good thing, but certainly to be anticipated. It would be hard to think of a way to "correct" them. Best you can do is whine about "hate", I suppose.

  39. Richard Aubrey says:

    Robin Juhl
    I suppose the author of the article should be told that, because of the rant to which you linked, her son ought to be jailed. As Twain's Aunt Polly said, when finding she'd smacked Tom instead of Sid, "Didn't get a lick amiss, I reckon." I figure the author of the story and the author of the rant ought to have a discussion. It could be televised. Go viral on Youtube, by golly.
    I don't suppose it would make any difference to point out that the justice system which hunts down, prosecutes, and punishes violent criminals including those who practice violence against women, is mostly made up of men…?
    Then there's the view that, if I'm going to be called an asshole when I'm not, I may as well be an asshole and enjoy it because…what more are they going to do to me?

    • Robin Juhl says:

      Richard,

      As a fellow GUY, I'm tired of being called a would-be-rapist, just because of my gonads. The author to whom I linked may have well had a sympathetic nod from the "anonymous" author — until it's her son now in the star chamber pit. Too many women get raped. But too many men get their lives ripped apart when falsely accused of it. Care to guess how many of the Duke professors who signed a letter excoriating the lacrosse players bothered to apologize once they had been PROVEN innocent? (Hint: The concept of zero was a major step in math.) These "feminists" should HATE false accusers. But no, they just hate men. And somehow, a man being mad about a proven false-accuser is made out to be misogyny. I feel sorry for the son of "anonymous" because he was raise by one of these nut-cases. Glad that mom is now seeing the light.

  40. LIVEINFEAR says:

    As the mother of a falsely accused son, let ME explain to those who question why she chose to remain anonymous.

    I didn't – and my son was horrifically punished for it.

    My son's accuser was a family member. I have a 30 plus year history with her. I know her history of filing false police reports for attempted rape when caught sneaking out of the house as a teen. I know her history of molesting children she babysat as a teen – back in the days before child abuse awareness she actually laughed about it(after a few too many drinks).

    My son was not the first boy she falsely accused. After getting into an argument with a neighbor, she accused the 5 year old son of raping her 4 year old daughter. The child attended sexual abuse therapy while the mother, the "victim by proxy" ,enjoyed unquestioned acceptance and sympathy.

    cont…

  41. LIVEINFEAR says:

    A few years later, after I caught her sneaking alcohol to a recovering alcoholic family member, she claimed my son molested her son.

    In anger, I threatened to report her claim to the police – and include her prior history of being a molester. She immediately apologized to my son. I had a LOT to learn about the legal system, unfortunately.

    cont…

  42. LIVEINFEAR says:

    Two years later her daughter suddenly "disclosed" instead of molesting her brother, my son had violently and repeatedly raped her – at knife point – two year before.

    My son passed multiple polygraphs, her medical exam showed her hyman intact. All the past allegations and her abuse therapy were RAPE SHIELDED – aw was her mother's as a "victim by proxy".

    The family left the state and refused to return to testify.

    End of story?

    No.

    The end of the story was my son forced to accept an Alford plea (still maintaining innocence, but considered a guilty plea in the eyes of the law) for no jail time – then jailed anyway after passing yet another polygraph saying he didn't do it.

    cont…

  43. LIVEINFEAR says:

    He underwent YEARS of abusive "offender treatment" because he couldn't pass a polygraph saying he did it – you are forced to confess in "therapy". After years of "treatment" it was recommended he be sent to prison for 6 years "because he hadn't taken responsibility for making his mother believe he is guilty".

    He was a high school kid when this started. Over half his life has been spent on a sex offender registry.

    This mother has NO idea what is in store for her son or she woldn't have said as much as she did. Yes. He CAN be punished for HER behavior.

    Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.

  44. elephantjournal says:

    Huh? Is that your rant, or are you quoting some blog? Either way, such anger doesn't seem helpful, intelligent, accurate or…you know, nice. ~ Waylon

    • why__? says:

      We die you go back to your cave you bastard of a rapist and a whore.

    • anonymous says:

      If this woman’s son gets convicted, you will find out just how “accurate” my “rant” is.

      You will also find out what the depths of hell are, as far as anger goes.

      Like this feminist mother, you will also find out how little “intelligence” has to do with a court of law. . . or truth, for that matter.

      Colorado has a particularly cruel vigilante feminist pogrom waiting with claws bared should he be convicted.

      Ask ANY attorney what happens to an innocent person undergoing sex offender “treatment”. Go ahead – pick up the phone and call anyone of them. Colorado is known as being worst of the worst.

  45. david says:

    Women hate men. They absolutely hate men. Except to get resources from them.

    Somewhere, right now, a bunch of female shrews are reading that story of false accusation, their faces sporting beaming smiles of hate and pleasure.

    Your mother loves you, usually. The rest of women hate you.

  46. blissful_irony says:

    Hey I hope he gets what all men have been getting for years. Very ironic your BS had to come back and bite you where it hurts LOL. Why should anyone feel any compassion? Sounds like you raised a typical boy ripe for all sorts of exploitation by your types and those yoy helped empower with "take back the night" idosies.

    So yay good going by the gf whoever she is. Infact I hope all your co-workers with boys get the same rude awakening. You were in such fantasy induced dreams that the reality is shocking you now???

  47. [...] most hateful comments I’ve ever read have been right here on elephant. Oh say, here, here and here. Well I’m gonna call bulls%^t on all of that right [...]

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