Breaking News: Ashtanga to Become Science! ~ Steven Cahn
Headline: $12-million grant seeks to marry yoga and science.
Yogis may know, instinctively, all the benefits their practice brings them: calm in a storm; peace amid stress; even, dare we think, happiness.
The trouble is: Where’s the “proof?” And by “trouble,” I mean for the mainstream Western world, the world of Newton and Einstein and science.
Well, one big-name yogi is seeking to find that proof.
Courtesy Claudia Azula (@ClaudiaYoga)
Sonia Jones—the woman behind the expansion of Ashtanga Yoga via Jois Yoga studios, one of which opened this week in Greenwich, CT—and her husband, Paul Tudor Jones, are set to donate $12 million to establish a Contemplative Studies Center at the University of Virginia.
You read that right: $12 million.
The grant is scheduled to be announced on Friday, although the school began touting the big gift on Wednesday. In a release, the school revealed:
“At its heart, the center will be a series of collaborations among the College, School of Medicine, School of Nursing and Curry School of Education, fostering partnerships among humanities scholars, medical and nursing practitioners, clinical researchers, education researchers, and contemplative practitioners, among others. Plans call for evolving partnerships with other schools, including those focusing on architecture, business, public policy and adult learning.”
The program will investigate the modern application of yoga practices via existing research that is happening at the university.
Questions, of course, arise: Will the yoga studies simply be co-opted? (It’s been known to happen in academia). Is the emphasis on science correct, or should it be the yoga studies driving the investigation and not vice versa?
And, perhaps this: Do we need hard proof for something we “know?” Can we even find hard proof?
Of course, earlier science has proven the benefits of meditation and yoga. And, as long as we live in a Western world where science is the dominant mode of thought, there’s some degree to which we all have to work within the system we’ve been given. (Reminder: Don’t be co-opted by that system, though).
For their parts, Jones and Tudor Jones sound like they have their perspective in place.
“U.Va. has had, for a number of years, remarkable expertise in different sectors,” Paul Jones said. “What we need now are threads to tie them together and weave them into a greater whole. Our goal with this gift is to enable the Contemplative Sciences Center to function as an integrative force that pulls together disparate parts of the University.”
Jones added:
“At this juncture, our educational system needs to consider new ideas and practices for the mind and body that can complement its traditional valuation of critical thought and debate. We think contemplative and yogic traditions offer transformative possibilities in this regard, and hope that our gift will enable U.Va. to engage in an extraordinary experiment aimed at reassessing learning and well-being in relationship to these traditions.”
As an Ashtangi, I’d be failing in my duties if I didn’t mention that the university’s release mentions Sri K. Pattabhi Jois. From the release: “The Joneses’ initial inspiration for funding the center came as a result of their devotion to their Ashtanga yoga teacher, Sri K. Pattabhi Jois, and a desire to honor his life and legacy, she said.”
In the program’s first year — it is set to begin in October — plans include courses in yoga and similar studies, a “contemplative-in-residence” and the awarding of research funding. It also plans an annual contemplative summit and a speaker series.
Over the next decade, the Jones are hoping for bigger things: “they would like to see U.Va. emerge as the world’s center of thinking about how higher education, and society at large, can be transformed by contemplative and yogic practices, ideas and values.”
Word is that Ashtanga teacher John Campbell is heading to UVa, as well. Nothing official on what his role might be or if he is the person in residence.
The program is seeking an executive director, however. Is your resume up to date?
More on this to come as details become available. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
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Thanks so much for taking the lead on this story Steve and for being so on the ball today. Your contribution is very much appreciated.
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YES
Thanks for this! I have read the press release about the UVA Center, but hadn't realized that it was connected to the Sonia Jones of recent Jois Yoga fame. Very interesting! Definitely contradicts the "trophy wife" label that perhaps rather sexist-ly slapped on her by Vanity Fair. I think the Center sounds great, and am in fact really thrilled by the idea of yoga making more of serious (and well funded) connection with science in the U.S. The Buddhist/meditation community has been involved in this for years now (see the Mind and Life Institute), and it's produced a lot of excellent and thought-provoking work.
We are finally seeing more and more of Eastern medicine incorporating with Western medicine! I like it!
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This cannot come soon enough. Many people believe that swimming is superior to all kinds of yoga., Let's prove them wrong.
Let's prove that full drishti gives superior results over 'not really bothering with drishti'.
Let's prove that Ujayyi breathing actually has benefits over other kinds of 'sports breathing'.
Let's prove that conscientiousness in bhanda gives superior results.
Actually, that's not how science works. All the above statements carry a bias against the null hypothesis.
If you want to prove that ashtanga yoga is great, try to prove that it's not, and be happy to fail
PS. Can we have a look at ashtanga yoga under the influence of cannabis? Many say it's superior in many respects.
PPS. Ashtanga kills alcoholism. Let's prove it
Fantastic!!!! Surely there is so more we can learn about yoga thru science.
Am I the only one who thinks this is not needed? Am I missing something? Maybe my mind is too still (or just too dumb) to understand it.
If you need proof for yourself, do the practice and experience it. If (for some odd reason) you have the need to prove something to others, do the practice and be the proof.
I will read the article through again (maybe even many times) and maybe I will get a different view about this, but for now I just feel that this is not necessary.
I don’t need any proof for myself and I definitely don’t need to prove anything to anyone else. I don’t think it’s important to focus on the level of the mind, but rather to become connected in the level of the heart. Knowing is more important than understanding. The human mind tries to analyze and explain everything, I don’t. I rather just experience.
I hope I didn’t offend anyone, that was not my goal. Namaste.
Jocke Salokorpi (Tallinn, Estonia)
Ps. I have no problems in admitting that I’m wrong, so please if someone else has a better understanding of what this means and you would like to explain it to me, please do. Maybe I will soon be as excited about this as you are.
As an Ashtanga Vinyasa yoga student I agree with you that if you need proof, well, prove it to yourself and that knowing is infinitely more important than understanding. You only need the determination to prove it. It's great that a vigorous study can somehow prove this but I really don't need it either… but I also understand the value in the West (especially in the USA) of scientific studies that validate the practice to the skeptical mind. But then again one will only have an understanding and not a knowledge. I really do appreciate the rigor of a scientific study. Science is the discovery of the immutable laws of Nature (of God?) and I commend those brilliant minds and passionate souls who are driven to discover these laws. It's a collision of cultures, East and West, that we're witnessing and have been witnessing ever since yoga was brought out of India. I just hope the work and the study are unbiased. Swami Rama, founder of the Himalaya Institute, attempted to quantify yoga in scientific studies in the 70's but the instruments were still too crude so this is really not a ground breaking study. I wonder if the results will really make much of difference though? I certainly hope so. Is the study needed? Who determines the need?
I think that they'll probably need a lot more that $12 million for the study. If a company could get a nice return on investment off yoga, like the drug companies do off of their drug products, then a lot more money would be spent on scientific yoga research seeking to monetize the study's value. But that's another discussion – the Western vs. Eastern medical model.
Jocke, thanks for your comment
[...] elephant – Astanga To Become Science [...]
so what exactly is the question? what is the connection between science and yoga here?
"And, perhaps this: Do we need hard proof for something we “know?” Can we even find hard proof?"
my answer would yes. because only because we think we know something, doesn't mean we do. I would prefer my "knowing" to line up with reality and not wishful thinking. (I know there are plenty of people who don't care about reality but happily buy their homeopathic snake oil because "what's the harm, it works for me")
But my question would be what's the scientific hypothesis? And how is it double-blinded to ensure it's not just the placebo effect? What does the yoga studio? It sounds really exciting and I think working in a studio could lead to great collaboration and a creative environment (hell, I just had a much needed insight right after yoga while walking home)
Thanks for this, Thad. Even though I'm at UVa, this is the first I've heard of this! I totally agree that we need to "work within the system that we've been given." As I see it, in order for yoga, meditation, etc to be accepted as forms of "healthcare" and healing by western biomedicine, it must be shown to be effective within the western biomedicine paradigm (as in hard proof).
After I had knee surgery in '05, I asked when I could do yoga again. The orthopedist said basically never because it put "too much torsion on the knee". As a result I didn't practice for about a year! And when I started to practice again, I finally began to regain my strength and balance. Yoga was way more helpful than the PT I had been doing. I hope that the establishment of this Center will (among other things) teach people in healthcare more about the benefits of yoga and how they can use it with their patients. Then again, I am a hopeless optimist in this regard.
I also agree that there is a danger of yoga being "co-opted" by science/medicine, but I also think that opening up more gateways to yoga is a good thing. Lots of people begin practicing yoga for superficial reasons, but some end up making changes in their lives and practices that go far beyond their original reasons for trying yoga. Yoga deserves more serious inquiry; hopefully that will help more people reap the benefits of the practice than the waves of yoga "trends" of the past decade.
[...] Our post here. Our Elephant Journal piece here. [...]
Your headline touting yoga to "become" a science really threw me off. Yoga IS a science, because it's based on empirical evidence of its affect the mind/body relationship. You could say, married. Also, it's my understanding that the grant being offered is to study and document how the various threads of yoga are revealed through its disciplines. Not as some an existential exercise in the many versus the few. Guruji said that yoga is universal, and that its knowledge is gained through practice. So how then, can it be co-oped. Except by its own practitioiners.
Nothing new here.
"Kaivalyadhama’s quest of propagating Yoga for the humanity dates back to 1924 onwards when first ever laboratory for scientific research in Yoga was established by it’s founder director Swami Kuvalayananda. The research work done so far has attracted world wide acclaim and rave appreciation from the personalities of the caliber of Pandit Motilal Nehru, Mahatma Gandhi, Indira Gandhi, Lieut. Col. K.G. Gharpurey (Ex. Surgeon General, Govt. of Bombay), Dr. W. Burridge (Prof. of Physiology, Lucknow University), Dr. Wenger (California University), Dr. Bagchi (Michigan University) and Dr. Ctibor Dostalek (Professor, Charles University, CZ.) and many other eminent personalities."
lavazza1891
I bet even chipanzeees practice yoga. In one form or another. Yoga means union, the coming together of two opposing forces to produce equilibrium. That’s what makes it a science, and why Phd’s acclaime its virtues, and yogis (sometimes) practice bending it to their will.. It’s just an equation, manifesting as light.
Just by way of explanation…
The title was primarily intended as an attention grabber. In putting this piece together for Steven I took editorial license with this. Of course yoga is a science. In fact the first piece I ever wrote for elephant is entitled “Yoga is Science.”
But this actually gets to the heart of the issue for me. For I actually agree with Jocke above and do not necessarily see this as a good thing. Perhaps practically yes, but philosophically I have great reservations about it on account that it serves to only capitulate to the dominant paradigm of knowledge which asserts that we only know things when they are “scientifically proven”. I think this not only utterly begs the question, but in the end puts the cart before the horse. To Guest above I would ask, and on what grounds are you so certain that knowledge and knowing is the actual product of science?Clearly western science is a particular and successful epistemology, but I fail to see why it is the only game in town, not to mention from whence it derives its “God’s eye” perspective. The question for me remains, why do any of us need a 500 year old way of knowing still arguably in its infancy to “confirm” what over 5000 years of tradition shows us everyday?
The issue of yoga and science depends on the proposition. Of course physical practices can be studied in a scientific manner. Just like walking or running or gymnastics. It doesn't make one more right or virtuous than the other.
But for the ultimate question – is there a god, how do y define it and name it, and what are its characteristics -, this fails scientific method. Imagine this discussion with a Muslim – they will never agree that the Hindus are Right, even if the was some sort of "scientific proof" – not to mention the Christians. And the paradox – if there is a god, then how can he tradition be Right at the expense of another? Such hubris, pure ego, no humility.
By the way – the title is terrible. It does not reflect the content of the donation nor the press release at all.
Well…it got you to read the article…mission of title = accomplished. As for the deeper discussion relating yoga and science…we will shelve that for a later time.
I feel that all of the Yoga people (the word "Yogis"is mis-used.) need to constantly pat each other on the back and tell each other how good they are. Specially the kind that are extremely wealthy.
Those yogis and hippies that give science a bad rap are so ridiculous and hipocritical …. I dont see them complaining about science when they use their computers or cellphones , or when they use their washing machines , refrigerators , toothpaste , cars or public transportation …or when one of their relatives is seriously ill and needs to be taken to a hospital …or when they turn on the lights when they are home.. Or when they take a flight ….. Unless you live in a cave all aspects of your life are related to science in some way …
This 500 year old "way of knowing that is still in its infancy" is the only reason your life expectancy is 85 , it is also the only reason why you still have all or most of your teeth if you are older than 30 and it is also the reason why you will very probably wont die from an infected wound .
Science is stll the best way to know things about the natural world …… Of course religion and spirituality have no place in science because they belong to the realm of the supernatural …. Although most yogis dont seem to know the difference….the only benefits of yoga that science will be able to quantify are those that affect the body , the same can be said of any other physical activity .
As for the purpoted benefits of meditation on the brain , the existing reasearch rests on very shaky foundations ….so what are 5000 years of tradition showing us everyday? Maybe that yoga interferes with your critical thinking skills.
Also the oldest Veda is 3700 y. Old at the most and classical yoga as a system of contemplation with the aim of uniting the human spirit with Ishvara, the "Supreme Being" developed in early Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism during Indian Antiquity, between the Mauryan and the Gupta era (roughly the 2nd century BCE to the 5th century CE)… So get your dates right.
Well, to assuage any fears that I am a toothless hippy who lacks the ability to think critically I will say that my critique and questions regarding the enterprise of science stem from my years of graduate philosophy where I spent the majority of time reading Foucault, Derrida and delving deeply into the discipline of science studies inaugurated by the work of Thomas Kuhn and furthered in the works of Donna Haraway and Bruno Latour.
Regarding the issues you raise…
~ The fact that one may make use of technology, which is of course an offshoot of the scientific enterprise, but hardly the main product of research science, which is primarily at issue here, amounts to little more than a red herring, assuming that it bears any relevance at all. I can assure you that one can happily use technology while consistently questioning the production and legitimization of knowledge via the western scientific enterprise.
~ Life expectency is really a moot point until science figures out a way to prevent death. There are many historical examples of people living well into their golden years, but when it comes down to it, when our time is up our time is up. "Elderly" is really a status of life right before death and since none of us have knowledge of this time, it's fair to say that we all might be in our "golden years" right now.
~ Science is a great way to know things about the physical world. I don't agree that there is such a hard and fast division between science and other ways of knowing as you suggest. Each particular epistemology has their area of expertise and more often than not it is these situations that those rooted in an empirical model fail to recognize the limits of their discipline. The fact that science is the "best way" is debatable. This is a vastly large subject and one that I am more than happy to debate at length if you so desire, assuming you can set aside personal barbs and stick to the topic.
~ The dates you provide for the vedas are interesting. The one question I would ask, is how does one accurately date an oral tradition?
Ok so the title of this post is "ashtanga to become science ….unless you are talking about social science i cant see how a system of yoga can become science as in the formal sense of the word . The only connection i can see is that of the research of the physical benefits of the practice of yoga , but then you could say the same of swimming or biking ….but then you dont say swimming to become science .
Can you give me an example of a better system that can be used to understand the natural world in an objective way …spare me the philosophical and relativist discourse of wether reality is really really real or not… If you shoot yourself in the hand i can assure you it will hurt ..
If you cant see how modern medicine benefits human health , well, i cant help you with that . Perhaps you have never had the need to get an MRI or x-ray or you have never needed to undergo surgery or other medical procedure because of a life threatening condition….good for you ….a lot of people are not so lucky . I am thankful for living in the age of antibiotics , and painkillers …and toothpaste.
Finally , the Vedas… A compilation of texts originated in ancient India … Vedic Sanskrit is the language of the Vedas….although i dont know what oral tradition are you talking about …im guessing a linguist or some other social scientist could answer your question.
Just by way of unsolicited advice
…don't get so hung up on titles; typically they are intended to catch readers' attention.
…simplicity makes the world easy to navigate, but it lacks critical reflection and in conjunction with this…it's hard to fill a full cup. We obviously see the world very differently.
…the vedas didn't just fall onto the page, i.e., the knowledge/wisdom existed long before being codified in script.
…for a more a brief overview of how yoga is in fact a science, I would encourage you to read http://www.elephantjournal.com/2011/08/yoga-is-sc…
Finally, enjoy your toothpaste.
"For those who want to assert the primacy of a western materialistic science perspective in their descriptions of reality, I would ask from where does their “God’s eye” perspective come? From upon what ground do they stand that they can assert the delusion of those describing the tail or trunk versus those at the leg or body?"
The answer to this question has to do with the object of study of each of them . Science studies the natural world , the objective, that which can be measurable … Yoga and spirituality study the subjective , the supernatural …now the question here is where is your question coming from …and i think the answer is from a relativist point of view ..from a relativist point of view there is no objective reality but i have to say this point of view is flawed , first because it obviously fails to make a distinction between our inner mental life (subjective) and overt reality , Second because it denies the brains ability to indeed grasp an objective reality which is a prerequisite in order to be able to operate in a material world , a world of objects …no mater what you think a failure to operate effectively in a material world threatens your survival.
Now the knowledge you get from science is universal , it applies everywhere and it can be used and reproduced by anyone , it is not static and is self correcting , if you come up with a theory that is wrong it will be proved wrong (peer review) , science can police itself thus guaranteeing objectivity is not lost .
The knowledge you get from yoga or spirituality is personal and it can only be used by you since any other person using the same method of yoga can attain different knowledge and different realizations or conclusions …what is the divine or enlightened for you might be very different from other peoples divine and since the divine is not of natural but of supernatural origin or essence there is no way to know or give it specific qualities therefore making an objective quantification impossible .
So is yoga science , yes if by science you mean a way of knowing but then can you know something that lacks any substance , quality or definition ?
This is a very simplistic understanding of science and objectivity. I would encourage you to read several thinkers in the field of science study. The notions you offer above accord quite well with those who ascribe to "scientism," but having worked and studied with scientists throughout my graduate work, I can assure you that even many real-world scientist would balk at the "rosey" description. Science has accomplished quite a lot through its PR program in the mainstream media, however, truth and accuracy are not amongst them.
Yes you are right it is a very simplistic , rosey , ideal- i might add- description, science and scientists are definitely not perfect and i think the same can be said of yoga . Yoga is very often sold as the perfect little way to happiness and well there is a lot of money and filth there too. So like you said i' ll enjoy my toothpaste and my gadgets , you can enjoy your asanas and we can both be happy ! There is a lot of space in this world for both things to coexist peacefully.
As an ashtangi myself I think you need to turn this argument on it's head. What can yoga learn about the practical methods of science? A whole freaking lot to be honest with you. Science is the 'practice' of natural studies. Your personal experience (and mine) with Ashtanga yoga is centered only on our own self experience. If Yogi's had access to the scientific instruments we use today maybe we would have thrown off the shackles of 'worship' long ago. Using Science as a methodology to study the affect of ashtanga on human beings only provide insights into our practice that we may not have reached.
Heretical as I may sound I hope that Yoga doesn't 'co-opt' the Science! Let the science be an analysis unto itself and we are all allowed to interpret the data set as we see fit.
I think we should check our yoga ego at the door. Try and open your mind and learn from a method of measuring our common experience in this universe.
[...] Breaking News: Ashtanga to Become Science! ~ Steven Cahn [...]
The title is a perfect example as to why yoga is not a science, haha. The donation is not about ashtanga. Nor does it proclaim that Ashtanga is a science, (as if there was a yoga standards board that made such proclamations).
Many aspects of physical asana and meditation, breathing techniques can be studied scientifically. That does not mean, howev, that God will be proved scientifically, or that subjective experience can be objectively verified and repeated by others.
We do ourselves a disservice as a community when we allow bare emotion and loose journalism to influence the discussion. Unfortunately, this is one reason why yoga and the like has been received skeptically over the years, viewed as a narcissic indulgence by those who live on the fringe in society, and an excuse by many to induldge in their selfish pursuit of ego: prestige, sexual gratification and financial gain.
science is merely the way of finding out carefully it if claims are true whomever tries the experiment, verifiable and repeatable. as such it is one of the very few approaches to understanding reality that transcends culture, belief systems and subjective bias…
understanding more carefully and rigorously what yoga/meditation does and doesn't do helps to bring these beautiful experiential disciplines out of the shadows of superstition, outdated metaphysics and claims that make us seem like part of the religious worldview.
this can only be a good thing.
understanding scientifically what yoga is and isn't doing is no threat to any of the subjective experiential bliss, healing and stress relief it provides – it does require though that we be a little more honest about some of the old world baggage that many still cling to about how we interpret those experiences in the larger context of reality!
As a scientist and yoga practictioner I have long been interested in the scientific understanding of the effects of yoga. As someone above said, many aspects can be explained scientifically, and many effects can be therefore perhaps 'vehicled' into a more objective and widespread applications. These most probably include asanas and pranayama, potentially also the lower aspects of meditation. But then we need to think that yoga is not only made by these aspects, it is a whole psychological methodology and, and how do we go about measuring the effect of aparigraha for example? By selecting only the more measurable aspects of yoga, we do it a profound disservice, useful perhaps to those who would want to include it in healthcare and also in insurance premiums costs. We risk making it a prescription medicine when each and single one of its therapeutic applications should instead be taylored to the specific individual, as many yoga therapy centers indeed do.
Honestly, I have been having this discussion often recently, with many friends. I am thorn between my personal interest iin understanding what goes on in our brains and the gradual realisation that there is so much more than our brains. I am not sure what the right thing to do is but I am pretty confident that throwing millions into a research which will be incredibly biased (just look at many of the comments above), will be extremely difficult to study in a controlled manner almost by definition (just think about the different kleshas and antarayas confounding effects), until we understand that it has to be studied in a radically different way and find the way to describe that radical difference… well until then we'd better spend the millions into finding the scientific method to use rather than collecting data without knowing how to analyse them.
Don't get me wrong, this field is incredibly fascinating but I am concerned that it will be very affected by 'confirmation effects' (designing experiments searching for the results we want to see. And finding them).
As I said, I am sort of thorn.
Ps – why are so many people reducing yoga to ashtanga vinyasa?
[...] questions—among others—circled around a couple pieces of news in April: the big, $12-million donation from the Tudor Joneses (backers of Jois Yoga) to the University of Virginia for a contemplative [...]
[...] News Flash: Ashtanga ain’t an exact science. [...]