I Don’t Believe in Astrology, Yet I’m an Astrologer.

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That’s right, I don’t believe in astrology, yet I’m an astrologer.

This might seem odd to some people. How can an astrologer not believe in astrology? Well, it’s pretty simple—astrology is not a religion, it is a science.

Yes, I said it, astrology is a science. I know most people in the West (including most astrologers) don’t “believe” it is a science. In fact, crazily, even many who “believe in astrology” don’t believe it’s a science.

Let’s get back to the “science” part of it in a minute. First, I want to examine the whole concept of “belief.” Then we can look at whether or not it is a “science.”

What is a Belief?

Here are a few questions—answer them quickly in your head.

Do you believe in God?
Do you believe in yellow?
Do you believe in noise?

You probably answered “yes” to all of these questions. But the truth is, unless you are deaf, blind or both, only one of these questions even fall in the category of belief. The first question, “do you believe in God?” That’s because, God must be a belief, either for or against, because it can’t be directly perceived or known as an experience. Even what we might call “an experience of God,” is a belief that the thing we experienced was God.

Only a blind person will have a belief system about “yellow.” In fact, for the blind, yellow must be a belief, either for or against—as they have no direct experience of light, and therefore no direct experience of color.

A deaf person must have a belief system about noise, for the same reason.

If you are blessed to be neither deaf nor blind, yellow and noise are not beliefs—they are facts, based on your experience. But imagine trying to explain yellow to a blind person, who did not believe in it, or noise to a deaf person. What would you say? How could you convey something intellectually, that can only be an experience?

No amount of explaining, or producing a rational argument, can convince the blind that color exists. What they need is an eye operation, which would give them the experience of color.

Why is this important?

Here at elephant journal, yoga is the big thing—the big spiritual thing everyone “believes in.” So, we might say that people here believe in yoga. But is that correct? Would you say that you believe in yoga?

No. You don’t believe in yoga, you “practice” yoga. You “do” yoga. In other words, yoga is part of your experience. But guess what, there are people who do not believe in yoga. They do not believe in meditation. They think yoga and meditation are witchcraft, where you open yourself up to spirits. Some of them may have even practiced yoga or meditation and became uncomfortable or restless, then interpreted these practices as satanic and evil.

People say the same things about astrology who have never studied it.

But what would you say to such people, entrenched in their calcified beliefs about yoga, beliefs that deprive them of something so beneficial and beautiful? What could you say? The only thing you could say is “well you just have to try yoga for yourself and see.” In other words, talking to them on the level of their “belief” is a waste of time. They are like the blind or deaf person who needs an operation.

As an astrologer, this is very familiar to me.

People often say something like “I don’t believe in astrology, it’s not scientific.” Or worse, “it’s used to dupe people/rip people off,” or “it’s a superstition.” Sadly these opinions not only come from the right-wing, but from within the yoga community as well.

Even here at elephant journal, astrology is often ridiculed or demeaned. I have been teaching astrology for close to 10 years now. I started as a yoga teacher and I was shocked at how many swamis and high level yogis also don’t “believe in astrology.” Paramhamsa Yogananda himself did not believe.

But I will tell you here and now, as I said at the beginning, I don’t believe in astrology. I practice it. I study it—just like every other person who has embraced astrology as part of their life. To them it is every bit a part of their life experience as yoga is a part of your life. It is a practice, not a belief system.

This is a sentence you will never hear: “I’ve been studying astrology, looking into it and it just makes no sense. It just doesn’t work.” That is the thing about astrology, and all metaphysical sciences, the more you do them, and participate, the more you see them working.

But How Does it Work? What Do These Big Rocks in the Sky Have to Do With Me?

The big question is “how does it work?” What do those big rocks up there have to do with me. Is it gravity? Do the planets emits some sort of rays? As revered scientist Carl Sagan pointed out in his mocking, absurd report on Astrology in his Cosmos series, “the physician in the room has more gravitational influence than the planets.”

The Answer to the Big Questions:

I don’t know.
No one knows.

Does this prove that astrology is not a real science? Because after all, we know how other sciences work, right? A doctor knows how the body works, right?

Wrong.

Our Belief in Science:

A doctor does not know how the body does what it does. A doctor does the same thing an astrologer does. A doctor uses his gross senses to perceive chemicals in the body reactions in the body, and then based on that makes a prognosis. It is repeatable and consistent on a diagnostic level based on thousands of years of research.

But the doctor doesn’t know how the body does what it does anymore than the astrologers know how the universe works. For example, the doctor can take your pulse, which indicates your heart is beating and pumping blood, at a certain rate, etc.

But the doctor does not know how the heart does it. He knows where in the brain stem the electrical impulse is sent. But where does the impulse originate? How does the impulse know exactly when to emanate? How does the body keep breathing? How do the cells know exactly what to do all the time?

The pancreas secretes insulin at the right time, but how do the cells in the pancreas know when that time has arrived? What makes it all work? How does our food just digest itself? From where does this cosmic genius emanate? The doctor doesn’t know any more than the astrologer knows.

Just because the doctor or other scientists can perceive results and offer explanations about what and why (the same things astrologers do), does not mean they know how any more than astrologers do. We ask things of astrology we don’t ask of regular sciences, then discredit it because it not scientific.

What Astrology Does:

The diagnostic process I described above is exactly what an astrologer does. Instead of taking the pulse, or looking at chemicals in the blood, she looks at the birth chart. Any beginning student or advanced practitioner of astrology will say correct and uniform statements on an astrologically diagnostic level. Just like a lab intern that sees insulin in your blood.

For example, anyone who has studied astrology at all would say the same thing if they saw Mars in the first house in an astrology chart. They would say the same thing (in their own words), and it would be correct. If it was aspected by Jupiter, they would know what that means and it would be correct. If it was in the tenth house instead of the first house, they would say something different and it would be correct—and on and on.

I made a video that shows Vedic astrology as the science of how spirit takes form
and its relationship to yoga and Indian principles.

Because astrologers disagree about advanced predictions, and what different subtleties and nuances are implied for the future, does not mean astrology is not incredibly uniform. Let’s remember, getting a “second opinion” does not usually mean a person wants to get a second astrology reading. It usually means they want to go to another doctor.

Bottom line: doctors contradict each other also. At a very subtle and advanced level, all sciences will arrive at contradictory conclusions. Because the scientists themselves perceive the subtleties of the data differently.

But even though doctors may arrive at a different prognosis, they will still completely agree on the uniformity of the data they are assessing, same as astrologers. We will see the same indications, but what it might mean for the future will be up for debate.

Eastern vs Western View:

Astrology is a great microcosm of the differences between Eastern and Western culture. In January 2011, the Western astrology world was disgraced by the “Ophiucus-13th Astrology Sign” debacle. If you forgot, someone from the “scientific community” decided to tell everyone how stupid astrology is by pointing out “You may not be your sign” because there is another sign along the ecliptic, etc. They pointed out that the actual constellations are no longer there anymore (and those pesky astrologers don’t even know or didn’t even tell you!). This did nothing for astrology in the West, except provide a forum to ridicule. Nothing new, just blind people not believing in yellow.

What many do not realize, is concurrent to the ridicule of astrology in the West, was the glorification and elevation of astrology in India. At that time, the Supreme Court of India ruled that astrology is indeed science and is to be recognized in scientific circles.

Why should you care?

Maybe this article just seems like a rant from a frustrated astrologer. Actually, I am not as frustrated as I am inspired by the possibility that astrology can reclaim a rightful place in this world. Astrology is the science of how and why spirit takes form. The source of every physical action emanates from a place of divine harmony and equilibrium. We see this conveyed in the Yoga sutras, the Bhagavad Gita and every scriptural text.

Astrology is the study of that divine love and wisdom. The Grahas (Sanskrit words for the planets/creative forces of life) are the wise beings that have presided over this corner of the universe for 4.5 billion years—compared to the “epoch of humanity” a scant 100,000 years—1/45,000th of the age of our solar system.

Everything that has lived or will ever live on Earth was created by the sun and moon and other Grahas. This is not just poetry; it is as scientific as it gets. As soon as the sun stops shining or explodes everything here is dead. None of the sutras or scriptures have any meaning then. Astrology is the study of the divine universe that creates beings and situations, so they may know themselves.

Right now, the earth is turning on its axis 1000 mph at the equator and hurtling around the Sun at 67,000 mph. All of this happens with total ease, hardly a speed bump. It so easy to forget the miracle of life, the miracle of the sun, moon, earth and stars that have created it all. But whether or not we remember the sun, moon and planets, they will still keep giving and giving as they have for 4.5 billion years.

To the ancient yogis and rishis of India (and every culture), these cosmic rhythms were remembered, glorified and studied. They gave thanks to the Sun and entered into communion with him and the other Grahas, and astrology was the result.

The great spiritual scientists of the past knew collectively that planets in the sky would not necessarily capture our imagination here on earth, so they created anthropomorphic deities and stories to illustrate the universal forces. For instance, Shiva energy is to illustrate the Sun and his wife the Moon (Parvati). In ancient India, all Brahmins (educated people) learned astrology, just like we learn math, science, history and other subjects. In this modern era, we are all Brahmins (educated people) and the need to restore our collective connection to the cosmos has never been more important than now.

Intelligence devoid of wisdom is more dangerous than ignorance, and seems to sum up the plight of our modern world.

Astrology is the practice of connecting your limited mind and intellect with the cosmic mind that produced it (and everything else). It is my hope that the modern world returns to the glory of this universal study. Everyone wants to know their place in the universe, and astrology is the study of that. In fairness to all, I think astrology is often taught badly, made to seem more complicated than necessary.

If you are interested, I have a free Mega CD of Classes that have a full range of beginning to advanced classes, manuals and videos that I will send you for free, just pay the shipping.

Read more:

Deepavali, The Libra Cycle and The Power of Thought

Full Moon in Pisces – Beyond the Fear of “Catching Cooties”.

Britney Spears predicts date of End of the World; dances.

~

Editor: Tanya L. Markul

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Sam Geppi is a Vedic astrologer, and teacher. He is the author of “Yoga and Vedic Astrology” and “The Ascendant-108 Planets of Vedic Astrology.” – Sam’s YouTube channel – CLICK HERE to Subscribe for free video forecasts and updates.
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anonymous Jan 29, 2015 12:06am

Hi Sam, first of all I will say that yes you are right from your side, you said that people who don't believe in astrology are the ones who don't have knowledge about it, who have not studied it and just talk what they think. But from my experience I have seen people who do believe in astrology without studying it also, they just say its 'scientific' its 'proved' it has meaning and all assertive talks just to convince their own self. They don't know what is the science behind it or the real truth, they just know that its somewhere exist. Now if I am blind and I don't believe in yellow that's OK I think because I can't see, I will never know the real yellow, but what about the people who are blind and still believe in yellow. If people who believed in astrology had enough knowledge to convince other people about why they believe in it, rather than why the other person should believe in it, it would be much easier then. I accept that blind people will never know yellow, but my point is, there are now different types of yellows that exist because there are blind people who claim to know what is yellow. And when the blind people get operated and can see now, they see a wide variety of yellows that are created by the blind people who believed in yellow as they want, and here is from where the confusion begins..

anonymous Sep 9, 2014 7:41am

That is the thing about astrology, and all metaphysical sciences, the more you do them, and participate, the more you see them working.
I don’t believe in astrology. I practice it. I study it

Don't these 2 sentences contradict each other? The more one studies astrology and sees it working, the more one believes in it, is it not?

I've been following astrology and seen it working for me and it kind of gets me all worried when I look at "bad" forecasts.

anonymous Aug 20, 2013 1:28pm

Hi nice article then how about marriage matching

anonymous Apr 18, 2013 9:45pm

Astrologers are failures who let the people they pray for down, like they did me. Its using profanity when they use in the same sentence the words, astrology,Chinese and even have the audacity to put those two words with bible. How can the demonic horoscope have anything to do with the bible other then the fact that it's only a coincidence that it happens to have twelve symbols that all of of you are stupid enough to believe in? Somebody should pray for Sam Geppi to be free from the bondage of Vedic astrology. He would be alot happier if he was a born again Christian not a lukewarm occultist who is happy to be listening to Lucifer and to be in an eternal prison with this defeated enemy. Astrology is used to keep all of you in bondage to Satan and his demons because astrologers, mediums, pyschics are mercenaries.

anonymous Apr 18, 2013 9:34pm

I once saw some astrologers, socalled pyschic friends who couldn't get the job done. They said I was going to meet someone who tried to sell me ten Playstation to games, well they did not deliver on their promises. Christians should not be dabbling in the occult which is what astrology, being a pyschic is and they wil be in hell when they are dead. Regardless if they can pray effectively or not. They failed me and my brother who is not here. Most astrologers, "pyschics" are deceivers who lie to people to get their money like they did to me who should repent, turn to Jesus forsake the occult and give back the money they took for something only God should do. Christians should not mislead others by giving false hope through readings of tarot,tea leaves,ouiji board,crystal ball,etc., thats all an abomination in Gods sight, and those who partake in this are going to hell unless they repent.

anonymous Jul 29, 2012 1:50pm

You're comparing an astrologer with a DOCTOR, a person who has to go to school for 12 YEARS to become proficient enough to even practice? LMFAO! I have read some deluded things before, but this is ridiculous. Anyone can become an astrologer, or a guru, because there is no LICENSING BOARD for it. And no…astrology is not a science. It is a pseudoscience, and a very dangerous one at that. Any external thing, be it television, astrology, drugs etc…that takes away from a person's focus and development is unhealthy and dangerous. Telling someone what to do, or "guiding" them based upon their "chart" is a form of passive aggressive unconscious control. It is essentially a form of brainwashing.The mind is a very powerful, impressionable thing, and is capable of playing all sorts of tricks. Astrology was basically created to control the peasants and keep them inline. Along with every other "religion".

anonymous May 15, 2012 7:18pm

I always enjoy your site and your exploration and understanding of astrology. I am very impressed with your handling of the difference between believing in something and studying or applying the results of one’s studying of a concept.

Believing, in my opinion too often result in war; whether with a big W or simply needing to have someone else support something we,at the moment, feel is a useful tool or concept.

If it clarifies and assists – great! If not, oh well we checked it out.

anonymous May 10, 2012 5:05pm

Vedic Astrology is extremely accurate.I only have one suggestion for those who don't believe in it:just try it! Find a good vedic astrologer with years of experience and give it a shot.
There is nothing to loose .

anonymous May 5, 2012 11:47am

Thank you Julian! I was wondering when you would show up and write something. What is it with yogis and astrology?? Take a romantic vision of "Eastern Wisdom", add a little "Mathematics", a heaping tablespoon of "Science" and throw in some chat about "Quantum Physics" and voila! you have an earnest western yogi hooked for life on "The Science of Astrology".

anonymous May 2, 2012 3:12pm

Throughout the Middle Ages, religion was “in”, and when one sought approval, it was most effective to back your case up with religion. With the age of Enlightenment, science became “in” and now it is more effective to be scientificly accurate, rather than to be religiously accurate. Carl Gustav Jung points this out in his book “Analytical Psychology” and talks about how both perspectives can be -and have been- taken to the extreems, in which case one becomes so reactionary against the opposite view that one becomes blind to any possible truth that may be contained within it. Both scientific and religions/spiritual ways of deciphering the world are legitimate and capable of finding some truth. Also, both are prone to overlooking some facts when taken to a fanatic level. In other words, scientific fanaticism can be just as ignorant as religious/spiritual fanaticism. Why? Because science just hasn’t discovered everything yet; there are questions that modern science cannot answer, but some spiritual paths do. And there is a chance they might be on to something! Therefore, it is best to be open-minded and consider what the “other” is saying gently. I believe in what Sam says here. But for those who oppose the idea of astrology being a science, I recommend they consider that it might become one, someday! In other words, mainstrem/accepted/modern science might advance to the point someday where it honors and embraces what Sam is saying. Afterall, science depends on observation and experimentation. It was once commonly accepted that the earth was flat, because it was obviously observable as such! In those days, it was against common-sense to say the earth was round! However, it took a broader obseration to discover that is was round. Similarly, today’s science might just have to advance more and gain a broad enough view to recognize how the planets effect us. One question arises upon this: Howcome astrologers know more than astronomers -modern accepted scientists- about the effects of planets on human life? One possible explanation is that there once was a science on earth, more advanced than what we have today; it possibly disappeared with disasters (great flood?) etc and Vedic astrology is among what knowledge has survived from that time…

anonymous May 2, 2012 10:56am

Thanks Sam for your work. I have done my own investigation in Astrology and the truth of the fact brought me to the conclusion that it (Vedic Astrology) is factual. Farmer's Almanac states," above the ground crops seeds should be planted during the Moons of Cancer (most auspicious), followed by Pisces, then Scorpio. Crops above the ground being corn ,lettuce, broccoli, etc. Root crops seeds should be planted during a Taurus Moon. Root crops being potatoes, yams, etc. Flowers seeds during Libra Moon. Until the appropriate Moon I noticed the seeds would not sprout until that time. So Farmer's Almanac was not selling snake oil either. I've done the same study with people.

anonymous May 2, 2012 6:31am

Astrology is a knowledge who mix scientific mind and cosmic understanding. Some parts can be explained and systematized, other parts are the fruit of self experience and deep perception of the Life. Life is not a scientific phenomena. Science will never explain what life is. The truths of one day or of one century become false or imperfect the next day or the next century. When you think you've reached the goal (the knowledge), the horizon recedes and escapes. The truths of sciences are always temporary, believe otherwise is an illusion or blind pretentiousness… As it has been said by Sam, study, try, test astrology (or anything else) and you will know by yourself what is true or not true.

anonymous May 2, 2012 3:42am

you are absolutely right sam….astrology….is a science…and …no one can challenge this fact…ya its true it seems little bit different than modern science… but it is still make sense,logical and we can prove our results by astrological calculations…

anonymous May 2, 2012 12:37am

Oh who even cares what these people think! It's kinda like Atheists challenging believers in God. Their narrow mindedness will keep them in the cycle of birth and death forever unless they open their hearts to possibilities beyond the material platform. Who made the stars? Y, es, God did. And why did he do it? EVERYTHING is empowered by Him so it's pointless to negate what you don't understand or other people's beliefs. It's kind of like a medieval witchhunt!

Lastly, any kind of controversy either good or bad will bring attention to the subject matter in question. Sadashiva you may very well end up famous due to people's ignorance:-)

anonymous May 1, 2012 11:08pm

Sam, Thanks for your thoughtful articles on astrology. Astrology is definitely a scientific study of the planets in our horoscopes as has been proven by many astrologers. Regards.

anonymous May 1, 2012 9:41pm

Sam, I am just simply grateful for your courage, wisdom, and beautiful soul. Thank you for being YOU! I love what you teach, and I feel blessed by your generosity. Namaste,dearly, Nitya. BTW, you speak and write Truth, and only those who are ready will be able to receive. Surrender the "debate". 🙂

anonymous May 1, 2012 3:16pm

Good to see after 5 pages of comments no one has yet to provide any sort of credibile evidence beyond first hand anecdotal vage hand wavery such as, "It definitely works, I know from first hand experience, you just have to try it".

Good to see that the world is not short on sheep.

anonymous May 1, 2012 2:04pm

Excellent insight, Sam.

anonymous May 1, 2012 9:20am

This is one of the most ludicrous posts I have ever read. But it is a good example of using logical fallacies in writing. Arguing the straw man by comparing astrology to medicine. Not to mention all the red herrings and instances of "Begging the question". I feel sad for human kind whenever is see how invested in magical thinking we are.

anonymous May 1, 2012 8:57am

“Millionaires don't use Astrology, billionaires do.”
― J.P. Morgan

anonymous May 1, 2012 8:11am

Its Actually Dwapara Yuga with a Kali Sub cycle

anonymous May 1, 2012 4:55am

Vedic Astrology certainly has proven to be an accurate science. Sam’s interpretation & analysis of stella activities has been astoundingly accurate this past year that I have been subscribed. Thoroughly, enjoy your Youtube video’s, thank you Sam Geppi for these free services to humanity & your regularly discounted classes or personal charts. I have wanted a personal chart & it will most definitely be from you.

anonymous May 1, 2012 3:32am

Hi Sam,

Astrology is a science no doubt about that it's a complex subject and it's very important for everyone to learn just like in ancient times where it was also teached just like math in college. But this is Kal Yuga and people are ignorant towards real higher knowledge like astrology. You do not have to believe it, you have to TRUST it because it is given to us by rishi's who were enlightened. We may be proud of it to learn this science of light which is like a medicine in this dark Kal Yuga time. And luckily we have Sam who can teach this science in an exciting and inspirational and funny way.

anonymous May 1, 2012 2:54am

For anyone who doesn't "believe" I dare you to have a real astrologer (like Sam here:) take a look at your chart.

anonymous May 1, 2012 12:50am

Astrology is a great tool. So are pencils, mandalas and hammers. Use at your own risk. And don't give up.

anonymous May 1, 2012 12:42am

oh goodness, i think the yoga community would be much better off if LESS people were gullible to things like astrology. its absolutelbunk and has failed every attempt to demonstrate that any of its claims are in any way true.

    anonymous May 1, 2012 9:14am

    Thank you for one of the few intelligent comments on this ridiculous post.

anonymous May 1, 2012 12:34am

Great post Sam!
Astrology is a science I believe..to me it is right on the money!! Love it and Sam is a great astrologer!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 11:27pm

Hi All,
Namaste.
There is no definitive answer for anything – who is the most right etc. Everything is acting or exerting itself on everything else. We get to decide whether it suits us or not or by how much. Astrology is an amazing system for me because it suits me, I'm able to link into the rhythms and cycles of these things nominated as 'planets' or celestial bodies. I have used it for years and it has introduced me to the least destructive version of my life that I can live.
Right and wrong is the place for hierarchies of worthiness. Wherever one is on that helix, eventually, absorption into Oneness is a place most devoid of pain, strife and division. It depends on how much resistance you have left. You don't have to worry about that – you'll keep resisting until you don't have the energy to resist anymore – whether that be in this life or another. Sam's view is something I'm not interested in contesting – he has a fabulous brain, he can be contentious – but that's just a form of Spirit keeping me from laziness. His heart, however, is ineffable.
May Sam keep me striving and sometimes, struggling.
Until we are all ineffable, by whatever path we each need,
let us collide into Oneness,

Dean

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 10:48pm

Sri Yukteswar: "It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief."

From: Autobiography of A Yogi Chapter 16

http://stellarinsights108.blogspot.com/2008/10/sr

Socrates-"An unexamined life is not worth living."

At the very least, what Astrology does is make you "examine" your life in ways you may not have thought about. Science or not, it expands your way of thinking. Sam has probably been the single most influential person I have encountered in my life recently and has directed me towards studying everything I have been searching for all my life. There is more you can learn from Astrology then testable experiments. You can learn psychology in an indirect way, you learn about other people as well as your self, you learn about mythology, philosophy and cultural viewpoints other than your own. So there is much to offer other being a science, which I believe it is. What needs to happen, is Astrologers need to become expert Astronomers if they ever hope for this Science to be validated in the West. The truth is, America is about the only place on Earth that has has to most trouble or objection to these type of things.

In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna tells Arjuna to not mistake himself as the "doer," and proceeds to say that God is the doer. The point being is that most people's Ego gets in the way of Astrology, leading them to dismiss it immediately. How could the planets do something to me? I am responsible for me? Well how come a rainy day makes you feel down and tired? None the less, Astrology actually was intended to know your Inner light. It corresponds to the Chakras (Another abstract term for people) or nerve centers in your body. The Motion of the planets combined with the Positive and Negative Cosmic Rays being emitted in the universe gives us the impulse to do something. Plainly put, Astrology is the "Science" of how Light of Probable Energetic Patterning or Divisions of Time, effects the Behavior of Man. (Remember History repeats itself.)

One major issue, is believe it or not, the water people drink in America! The water is contaminated with fluoride which actually calcifies your pineal gland. People in Yoga should know this, that the Pineal Gland is responsible for not just Awareness but Spiritual Awareness. They always say (at least in Mexico) Don't drink the water!

As far as Guru's still not using Astrology still perplexes me too Sam, the very Science was developed by a Guru or Sage, so why it is still unpopular is beyond me.

Lastly, Astrology isn't fast food, it takes constant digging and testing (like science) to understand it, nor is it hyper-literal like everybody here in the west wants it be. I will admit when I first started learning, I was skeptical, but I stuck with it and it is true with in the Principles and Rules that they give. People are so quick to dismiss but they won't take the time to explore. Explore it for a Year and I guarantee your view on life will be different.

That is all, Hope this helped Sam!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 10:41pm

"But I will tell you here and now, as I said at the beginning, I don’t believe in astrology. I practice it. I study it—just like every other person who has embraced astrology as part of their life. To them it is every bit a part of their life experience as yoga is a part of your life. It is a practice, not a belief system."

…just like every other person who studies any of the systems of the world that have an observation and experience situation over a very long period of time. It is not easy in this day and age of technology and want-it-yesterday to consistently see results of a system that still works after 5,000+ years based on natural phenomemom of the universe. This specialty science is reduced down to a small generic paragraph by your "Sun sign" in Western astrology on the lifestyle section of the mainstream newspapers (if they still actually deliver them!) for many millions of people that read it. Of course it "doesn't work" or is seriously discredited by people who hear the word "astrology" and immediately jump to this thought! There is no real conscious thought about the subject, just a snapshot engraved in the thinking mind about it.

"To the ancient yogis and rishis of India (and every culture), these cosmic rhythms were remembered, glorified and studied. They gave thanks to the Sun and entered into communion with him and the other Grahas, and astrology was the result."

…it's hard for the modern mind to wrap around the idea that we lived COMPLETELY different when this ancient science was observed and assembled. We lived in a more harmonious rhythm with everything and we do not now. That is painfully obvious in everything our senses connect with in our Western style culture of today. Plus the plethora of options in the realm of not only practice, but belief! And the planets (grahas) have the "last laugh", just as we are the "Fool" in the Tarot deck… the science of Jyotish (Vedic Astrology) works amazingly well, yes even in this day and age!!! It works because it is based on science. And to be good at what you do, just as a doctor or a lawyer does, they practice! Practice in science yields the possible answers to the "whys".

"Astrology is the practice of connecting your limited mind and intellect with the cosmic mind that produced it (and everything else). It is my hope that the modern world returns to the glory of this universal study. Everyone wants to know their place in the universe, and astrology is the study of that. In fairness to all, I think astrology is often taught badly, made to seem more complicated than necessary."

Don't get me wrong, studying Jyotish has been one of the more complicated things for me to practice in my life, but only because my limited mind tells me that there's so many things to consider!!! But I've never studied anything that has allowed for so much understanding of my Self and answers the "whys" of how I do what I do in the world: why I'm prone to anger, why I've always known since I was 13 that I will never have biological children in this lifetime (AND how my/their interactions WOULD be in our lives if I DID have them!!!), why it's hard for me to listen to my boyfriend's (or anyone's!) advice, why I can be touched in the deepest place in my heart when I see suffering in the world. And why I am able to find the light through it.

I don't know the answers to the "whys". I just practice the science of light!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:58pm

i am posting because sam stated interest in our posts. he freely shares w/ us so it seemed kind to give back something he has asked. right now, my religion is pistachios. i believe i have to eat them because i want them and i believe i am hungary for pistachios. i believe i need to finish the whole bag because they are nearly done anyway. i believe my lips sting a little from the salt and that my finger tips are now dry and need cream on them. a new now has come and i believe i ate too many, am fat, do not have enough control. if i bothered to question just the above mentioned beliefs, i would find that all of these are created in my mind. so for me, sometimes i notice that i have beliefs about or in astrology, other times i just see it like tonight reading these posts, projections of myself…..oh, and the posts that caused a little rise….these are the signposts where i am most unconscious/the most unaware and unquestioned thoughts…finding those takes me some meditation…cuz see, sometimes i really really really believe my shit. like, dr's and christians to me, are surely the most misguided group of humans walking the planet. clearly my religion, my belief, my prejudice spewing all over the place like our species does! (oh, and when i do 'the work' of byron katie on these beliefs, i will clearly find how misguided i am…in case anyone got a rise). and so far, i have been interested in astrology for 37 years.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:39pm

Wow, seems like we are back In the middle ages , this is as deluded as it gets , its ridiculous and what is worse is that you brought all your deluded pals with you … Funny …

    anonymous May 1, 2012 9:11am

    I find it absolutely amazing to the lengths people will go to hold on to superstitious beliefs and magical thinking. And twisting the word "science" so that it means any "system of study". Maybe in common vernacular but when these people invoke the scientific method they are obfuscating the word "science" and ignoring what the scientific method actually is.

      anonymous May 1, 2012 6:48pm

      I know , it is ridiculous , seems like nowadays anyone can claim to be a scientist….who needs 4 years of college when all you need is a 50 hour =insert your fave bs subject= course right ??

        anonymous May 5, 2012 11:42am

        Thank you Suri_k8 and Mike G. I was feeling like I was the only one on this site not drinking the Kool-Aid. Where are all these people coming from? It's like we're on a Creationism website!

        🙂

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:37pm

Sam keep up the great work! I enjoy the education I receive thru each of your post. I think real astrology is an ancient science. It may have become watered down due to time and to many charlatans, but its still an acient science. Someone once said that the human eye ( we as humans ) see less than 10 percent of what there really is. People need to learn to look up instead of being glued to an I phone or televsion set. Nature is much less a part of thier world.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:28pm

I love astrology and everything Sam has taught me and continues to teach me. I see no reason why astrology would make anyone angry?! It is quite bizarre if you ask me…and calling Sam names?! Silly behavior…
Thank You so much Sam for all that you give your students. I have always found you to be inspirational and I really appreciate all that you do and the knowledge you impart to your students. Bianca

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:19pm

Im just a working class person, no college grad here. I dont begin to dive as deeply into astrology as some of the others commenting on this article do. YET, I value astrology as a science equal to psychology, for being able to locate and advise on so many different aspects of the human psyche. And I value teachers of astrology, especially those like Sam, who wish to share the knowledge with anyone who values it. Thankyou Sam, for the wealth of learning Ive gotten from your articles and videos.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 6:59pm

The Mantic art in the hands of a charlatan is of course dangerous. The consciousness and sincerity of the practitioner in combination with the art is an alchemical combination yielding gold at it's best.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 5:38pm

Astrology is a highly mathematical science. If correctly calculated by a knowledgeable and learned person, it is very precise. One is subjected to his or her Karmic Dosh-action, either from the previous birth or Karmas accumulated in this life. Astrology even when calculated correctly goes wrong when Humans-the only ones- can change their Karmas by burning them through Sadhnas or Spiritual Vedic Practices, and with no fault of this science calculated on the basis of the parameters at birth.
Cosmic Energy is another deep Vedic Science, which governs the Cosmos, is responsible for all existence.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 4:49pm

Would be interested to hear reactions to this older article : http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1810/18101170.htm

fta:
But more important, any serious attempt to verify whether any form of astrology could have some validity by attempting to obtain correlations between cataclysmic events and the positions of celestial bodies or by testing correlations between personality traits and characteristics and zodiacal data have in general come a cropper. There has been no evidence of any correlation beyond what could be expected by sheer statistical accident or by the fact that those who knew what their horoscopes were, attributed characteristics to themselves that fit their astrological 'data'. There has been to date only one study, as the paper by Kelly, Culver and Lopston points out, that seems to suggest any link between personality characteristics and some fragments of astrological data (not the entire horoscope), but even the conclusions of this study do not support most of the claims of astrology.

BUT the issue of this one study brings us to the second major strike against astrology. Science is not merely a listing of conjunctions, accidental or otherwise, among different phenomena. There must also be some kind of coherent mechanism of interaction that explains why and how these conjunctions are produced. Without such a mechanism or even the slightest indication of the possibility of such a mechanism, astrology can have no hope of correcting or improving itself like all genuine science routinely does, by either filtering out wrong data or correcting the mechanism itself to explain various discrepancies. Astrology traditionally has had no such mechanisms or explanations for the influences that it claims. In more modern times some explanations have been attempted based on the achievements of modern science, none of which, it must be noted, originated in any way from astrology.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 3:28pm

Astrology is a sacred art based on mathematics and astronomy. The dupes and frauds are the people who push materialism and BELIEVE western science is the ONLY vehicle that will get you to the truth! Wake up from your mind control.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 3:18pm

If you start learning about astrology. it is very much a science. And Sam is extremely well versed in the science and a great teacher. I was raised by scientists, worked as an RN in Intensive Care Units for years and saw the resistance of Western Medicine to the Eastern beliefs and "energy nonsense of Reiki, etc". NOW there are lots of scientific studies, published in numerous medical journals, that attest to its validity in post-operative pain, recovery times, etc etc. Trust me, astrology is just another science that holds great validity when you take the time to learn it!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 3:14pm

thanks folks,
This is nothing new for me, and I do not need encouragement to have a thick skin or NOT take it personally, etc. Actually I do feel this impacts all of us who want to bring in the new paradigm and i do not agree that we have to just "ignore them", especially when the intelligentsia in this country is very hostile against astrology and there are powerful corporate forces (like Monsanto) who are already successful lobbying to curtail food and herb choices, etc.

Without being heavy, I do not think it a given that things like astrology will always be readily available.. Censorship of astrology ALREADY happens. Plus, I also think most astrology students should better understand these issues as well. The article I wrote is also imploring those who "believe in Astrology",.. but know nothing about it, to get a little better educated.

Truthfully, one of the reasons so many intelligent Westerners are turned off to astrology is it is discussed at such a banal level by those who just "believe in it", but don't really understand it. I understand why they feel about it the way they do, and I think it is a cop-out to just ignore them because "they don't understand".

Well they don't understand because no one has explained it properly, then they are being asked to "just believe in something" that is hard to fathom. Why should they believe in it? I didn't. I also thought astrology was BS until I started looking into it.

This is why I give away free classes and videos to try to give "believers" a tangible explanation of astrology, based on the science of the universe. That way we all can be educated and stop talking over each other's heads – with "Scientists" thinking we are just a bunch of Charlatans and Dupes, and Astrology students thinking they are just clueless, disconnected intellects.

If we are marginalizing them, without engaging them, we are no better, and I would like us to do better.

I made this video to help give a scientific basis for astrology, between Science and mysticism. I would ask you to share it is you think it is helpful: http://vedicastrologycenter.net/#video

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 3:13pm

As an engineer I don't really mind whether it's science or not. 'Science' can't even tell us what the weather's going to be tomorrow. It can't solve the equations for 3 bodies in orbit around each other. And 'science' certainly can't link quantum effects to gravity.

Question is does it work for me? Answer: yes it does.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 3:04pm

Astrology is a sacred art based on mathematics and astronomy. The dupes and frauds are the people who push materialism and BELIEVE western science is the ONLY vehicle that will get you to the truth! Wake up from your mind control.
You are living in a NWO, dystopian matrix. Sam–thanks for being an excellent Vedic Astrologer. Pearls before…

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 2:38pm

Sam, what can I say except that my snakes are looking very shiny and springy after the oil you have sold me. Good show sir! Long may your snake oil serve the country! As for the ignorant people:
1) Learn about the field you are discussing then comment on its negatives/positives.
2) Understand Astrology has been practised for 10k plus years and is a systematic science based on core fundamentals proved in Vedas. They have also been practised by Greeks, Romans, Egyptians & Arabs for centuries. Seems like a throw away comment to mention just because you have not researched/studied it then it must not be valid.
3) Even if you don't agree with a persons perspective it seems a little low that you would resort to words like snake oil salesman which shows you neither have the mental balance to read an article and assess its or the merits of the author in discussing a subject matter.
4) Sam you do some decent work in the fields of vedic astrology for several years. I have learned a fair amount from your videos and emails. Keep them coming. Remember : "The Light of Knowledge is opposed by every dark corner until it is illuminated".
Now where did my snakes go…….

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 2:21pm

Even the bible says their will be sign' in the sky.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 1:49pm

I've had two readings done; the first as a bit of a lark, as part of my training at Kripalu School of Ayurveda. Giving the astrologer no more info than my birthdate, time of birth, and location of birth he was able to tell me quite a bit about my early life, my difficulties with certain people and tasks, my talents, the time I began having difficulties with my live-in boyfriend, the onset of a major debilitating illness (and assurance that I would soon begin making great strides in recovery. He then gave me an outline of my future (obviously I have the free choice to do something about that but knowing when I would have an easier of tougher time during certain periods is helpful).

The second reading was recent, at the 2012 NAMA conference in Bellevue. This astrologer, given the same info I gave to the first one confirmed everything he had said.

If Vedic Astrology (Jyotisha) is not a science, how would two different people come to the same conclusions given the same data? A snake oil salesman tells you what s/he thinks you want to know in order to sell you the snake oil. The scientist gives you an informed reading of his/her observations based on the information obtained. No belief is required. Science is not religion.

However, those of you raised in the Christian faith may have read a passage in the Bible mentioning something called "The Book of Life": what would God write this Book in, if not the material world of the created universe we live in? If God has a plan for us, why would S/He keep it a secret from us? If we know how to read the Book, we can better align ourselves with our Divine purpose and avoid the pitfalls (or minimize the dangers) in front of us….

    anonymous May 5, 2012 11:36am

    "If Vedic Astrology (Jyotisha) is not a science, how would two different people come to the same conclusions given the same data? "

    Simple, they give you general information that is vague enough to be molded into whatever life situation was/is at hand and you think "oh my! how did he do it?!""

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 1:19pm

Science has also evolved over time and revised it's teachings and suppositions with added information and knowledge. We used to live under the 'science' and 'belief' that the world was flat. Wrong. Much about our universe and the principles of our physical world continue to evolve and emerge — shifting and changing our 'scientific' understandings and 'beliefs'. Astrology is unique in that it combines mathematics (a pure language with infinite possibilities…) with myriad wisdom traditions of intelligence and 'knowing' that began, operatively, long before the establishment of the Great religions and long before our old science AND New sciences… Astrology is a subtle mix of knowing and intelligence that defies simple statements about 'beliefs'.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 1:01pm

As my life is filled with duties I don't have time to study this deeply, but I can say that a reading I got from Sam when I needed some sort of guidance was very accurate and helpful. Often in my life I felt that doing one's duties is enough and as long as we fulfill them with love we will have guidance through intuition and therefore don't need to consult the planets, but there are times I have no clear perception and Sam's hints help to see more clearly.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 12:54pm

Interesting to see this post has stirred up anger in some comments. Astrology conversation aside- anywhere there is anger is a place to look closer, there is an opportunity to understand something about yourself.

On a personal note, I have had 3 Vedic readings done in my life, and in each case they were very powerful. I don't know about science or snake oil, I do know that there is a great unknown with many clues. Why could those clues not come from our sky? Or our own hearts?

Breathe well, friends. You will know your own path in that breath.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 12:38pm

yes i agree totally, it is science from old times but not agreed by the some non beleivers. i think it should be spread in more positive ways so that people can connect it with their daily life and see the difference.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 12:33pm

Such an old argument. Those who consult astrologers and the astrologers themselves, find skeptics' ignorance in need of enlightenment, and the latter thinks the former are downright stupid. And here we are heaping more weights on each side of the scale.
I don't expect this forum to convert anyone, either way. I will say that there are astrologers who started out as skeptics and some of them are on the leading edge of astrology now. And, I have never heard of someone who studied astrology in any depth, and decided it was BS. Which *proves* nothing. However, I will add my voice to those who find astrology valid. Whether it be called science or not is immaterial, to me.
IMO, among astrologers East or West, Sam is toward the head of the pack. I have no doubt that, were a skeptic to get a reading from him, s/he would be shocked. But that is extremely unlikely, as readings cost money, and if inclined to explore, who would explore something they perceive to be BS??? Oh, the occasional scientist who likes to de-bunk, perhaps…

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 12:33pm

Sam, thank you for opening my eyes to the wonders of astrology! I have experienced this science in real time and it can be mind boggling! I don't understand why people firmly believe the moon's cycle have a direct impact on bodies of water (including humans), yet they don't believe that other planets may have the same force. As always, thank you for enlightening.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 12:30pm

To my thinking, astrology is a combination of social science (e.g. sociology, or certain types of psychology) and hard science (e.g. mathematics & astronomy). Not always easy to successfully combine the two aspects, but I don't think that makes it absolute bunk or that practitioners are all snake oil salesmen.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 12:19pm

There comes a time, after years or so of meditation, when one starts to realize there are no coincidences. One gets the "Oh my god" feeling of how interconnected we are, of how there is a matrix, and of how we are a part of it. This matrix, a Latin word connected to Mother, is the realm of astrology, of karma, of reincarnation, of cosmic manifest, of Prakriti, of Nature.

Then there is a deeper realization, typically after quite a few more years, when one realizes that in the now, there is no cause and affect. There is in fact only conincidence of independent streams, as Sarasvati herself said in Vasistha's Yoga, This is the realm of the Self, of cosmic pure consciousness, of Purusha, and the circle closes.

I think what Sam was trying to say was said well by rishi Vasistha when that sage said succinctly, "The concept of unity is used to cancel the concept of the many; the concept of self (infinite consciousness) is used to cancel the conceptualisation of unity. The self can neither be conceived of as existence or non-existence, it is what is. (Vasistha’s Yoga, p. 400)

Warmly, Renay

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 3:21pm

    Thank you Renay.

    Your integrity is inspiring.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 12:05pm

Very insightful and informative article. I very much appreciated your closing remark and it is an observation or conclusion I have also come to in certain circles of late: "Intelligence devoid of wisdom is more dangerous than ignorance, and seems to sum up the plight of our modern world." I have only had scant interest in western astrology most of my life because no one was ever able to tell me anything I did not already know. No value in that. But Vedic astrology has an uncanny facility for offering one a look ahead (or back!) in their lives to different periods in time. This is of great value to me as it helps me to understand difficulties (and joys!) already experienced and to be more detached and patient when "issues" may be up ahead. Like those yellow/orange signs you see on the freeway that simply say: "BUMPS." You're ready for it!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 11:59am

To me astrology is a science in the same sense like economy. Indeed, astrology is the art of interpretation based on the science of astronomy. But you can never draw any definite conclusions. If you are a skillful astrologer (and this is THE biggest IF in the whole issue) you can extract meaningful info and point out trends and make good predictions etc. Astrology is about statistics. The same way economy is based on science, models etc. and IF you are a good economist you can figure out how the market moves and be a successful hedge fund manager, i.e. extract useful info. The problem there is the same – most economists with numerous degrees do not know anything and lose money in markets, and this is why we have crisis etc.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 11:48am

Sam, you've written a great article. I bow to your wisdom. I would add that "time" is a belief that all can relate to. For most of mankind's existence, there was no way to measure time except with a sundial that only worked from sun-up to sun-down because it was dependent on the sun's shadow to show the time. Once a clock was invented, with all its intricate wheels and gears, time was no longer geared to the sun, and mankind came to believe they were in control of time. However, from ancient times, people knew and understood the clockwork precision of the universe – the movement of the planets, the changing of the seasons, the importance of the sun and the moon and of earth itself – and how all these movements play out in the course of a man's life. It is too bad that in our quest for scientific knowledge, so many have lost the knowledge and wisdom of astrology. Astrology is the understanding of the great clock of the universe and its timing in our lives. The guide books for using that knowledge date back thousands of years, long before the time of scientific revelations, which incidentally, don't give us a clue as to who we are and how to live our lives. Long live Astrology!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 11:43am

Hi Sam!

I always enjoy your well-thought-out articles and often controversial opinions.

I believe in astrology and it works for me. In this context, "believe" means that I have faith in the reliability of astrology as an art and a science, but perhaps now this starts to get into semantics.

I very much resonate with your statement that "Astrology is the practice of connecting your limited mind and intellect with the cosmic mind that produced it (and everything else)."

Re: Yogananda not believing in astrology, that was true when he was younger, until his guru Sri Yukteswar convinced him otherwise through his teachings as well as a demonstration of the positive effect of an astrological remedy. As you know, Yukteswar-ji was a great jyotishi (astrologer). He said something quite similar to what you are saying, that, "It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief."

Thanks again, Sam!

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 3:20pm

    Yes Juliana, RE: Yogananda. He was not given to belief, but changed through Yukteshwar.

    I will see you soon at UAC!

    I have been thinking of how great it will be to see you again, friend.

      anonymous May 1, 2012 11:59am

      Dear Sam, I am SO excited that we will be hangin' together at UAC! XO

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 11:43am

Dr Frog was a great scientist among the frogs. He had made his residence within a well. He was an expert in his field of endeavor and knew everything about the well and related matters. One day, one of his friends came to visit him and said, "My dear friend, I have seen a vast mass of water, the Atlantic Ocean."
"What is that Atlantic Ocean?" asked Dr Frog
"It is very vast" replied the other frog
"How vast is it? Is it five times bigger than this well? Or ten times?” enquired Dr Frog in amusement
"No, no, it is very, very vast" said the other frog
“Come on twenty times should be it!" asserted Dr Frog although speculating

This is called ‘Kupa manduka nyaya’. ‘Kupa’ means well, ‘manduka’ means frog and ‘nyaya’ means philosophy. Dr Frog, although an expert in his field of knowledge, was not able to comprehend the vastness of Atlantic Ocean. Because of limited exposure, his estimation couldn’t come anywhere close enough to guage the vastness of the ocean

In same vein, Modern Scientists and Philosophers may be glorified experts in their chosen fields but their repeated efforts to speculate on aspects beyond their capacity of imagination or measurement has time and again failed to guage the vastness of this creation. The universes are ‘ananta’, unlimited, and therefore as Srila Prabhupada says, we cannot conceive aspects of entire creation by our tiny brain or limited thinking abilities.
With one's limited senses, one cannot argue about that which is inconceivable. Therefore the inconceivable is called ‘acintya’, that which is beyond ‘cintya’, our thoughts and arguments. ‘Acintya’ refers to that which we cannot contemplate but have to accept. Srila Jiva Gosvami has said that unless we accept ‘acintya’ in the Supreme, we cannot accommodate the conception of God. This must be understood

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 11:20am

Science is general laws based upon knowledge (attained through study or practice). It means that this knowledge uses observation and experimentation to describe and explain phenomena… So, I’m following the rigorous work of Sam Geppi since years now and yes, I could attest that his work method is scientific. More, if you would like to contest that, just try to be as specific as he is!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 11:19am

hey Sam,
wow, you have started quite a debate,quite amusing though,say for example bala says god can be experienced,exactly,thats what you have to say about astrology,any one who hasnt experienced it ,it would be like yellow to a blind person.Its an exact science,and like all sciences a lot of reasearch has been done on this,and alot of research will continue to be done.The best thing about you sam is that you try to simplify complicated things in easy to understand language,which not only makes understanding easy,but it stays with you. people are up in arms here because they havent experienced astrology ,you cant blame them for not knowing what they are missing out on.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 11:02am

i believe your doing your best. i will help you anyway possible but don't ask money from me than i can't stand astrologist that want money from people. should be free services to help people realize what is coming to us in future. we get that knowledge by deep BREATHING.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 10:57am

Sam, it is great. Astrology is combination of knowledge and wisdom. It is more advance than new science.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 10:53am

I have believed in astrology for a long time and Sam has kept the interest alive and got me involved with his useful updates and postings about upcoming events!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 10:42am

In my experience Vedic Astrology has been a great tool in helping me to understand myself better.
I definitely think one should have their chart done, and then and only then judge! It will blow you away how accurate the vedic astrology readings are. Sam Sadasiva Geppi is a wonderful and giving soul, who has been blessed to fulfill his dharma by imparting the vedic wisdom in a proper and thorough way! I thank you so much Sam , and I always will recommend you to people for readings. Jai Ganapati!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 10:26am

Sam Geppi is one of the most knowledgeable astrologer i know his words are full of knowledge don't ridicule him; when he says that he doesn't believe in it; you would have to believe in something you can't see but he sees so he has not question in believing it he knows its a true science

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 10:19am

Believe meaning wishful thinking? or Believe meaning have faith in something? Believe meaning being convinced by numbers and patterns? Mincing words. Spirit and Science are intersecting. So when you speak of the Planets as Deities is that a belief or a fact? For some belief is fact. For instance, some people believe in God. Why? Because they know some other force is beating their hearts, not they…while others might argue about it. My question: Why the aversion to the word Believe? Seems you will get yourself in a mind game and miss the point. We can't say we KNOW because we don't…exactly…but we do KNOW more than we know we know and because of that we know that we don't know. I personally believe (haha) that the word believe is beautiful and that science (like that of Astrology) is a perfect example to create a situation where one could come to believe (know, accept) that it has true and valid aspects. When you do your spiritual practice, are you believing, knowing, participating? Seems the same. Playing word games for dramatic results seems counter productive. There is much that is magical (uh-oh another buzz word). Let's keep the fun in the game, keep our words and allow our various points of view. The days of crackly old science stick in the muds are over. Arguing over the word believe as if it is a bad thing is silly. I call D-r-a-m-a!!!! (you can't stand drama, remember?) I call left brain arguing with right brain!!! Animus arguing with the Anima… Science is proving the power of belief, the power of conscious directed thought, and the power of the planets upon us. Let's be well and enjoy it, whether we can all agree on which words we should use or not (such a boy game). It's good to be technical but not at the expense of quantum imagination (just made that up) but you know what I mean..maybe? hahaha… Sam, deep breath and then dream the numbers, calculate the numbers..afterall, Scientists everywhere believe in the power of science, they believe that they can discover things that way, they believe in their reveries that reveal things in mysterious ways and lead them to discoveries… they know it too if you think it a better way to put it. Believe is a polite way to say it is your own inner knowing without throwing it in anyone's face as what they need to be doing…more like a doorway than a stone..That's my take on it! Math will give you absolutes, how much more do you need to "believe"? What about the ART of science? do you "believe" in that? hmmmm? much Love! -Simone

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 10:16am

Years ago, I was thankfully cured of this astrology argument after encountering a fundamentalist Vedic astrologer who doggedly persisted that his truth was THE truth and that THE truth was accessible to all people and it was his mission to convince others of that. In this encounter I also learned something about the con game of trying to con(vince) anyone of anything they don't already first believe. Who was that astrologer on a mission from God (or in his terms, Science)? The one and only Sam Geppi.

    anonymous May 4, 2012 1:55am

    Got to agree w/ the “Fundamentalist Vedic Astrologer” descriptive. I’ve been a student of Vedic Astrology for decades and I’m always learning. But what I’ve read here and the responses I’ve read from you Sam, are akin to the intolerant fundamentalist zealots I’ve encountered in other religions including far extreme Christians, Jews and Muslims. I see no difference in the intolerances for people who do not share your views from what these other extremist display. It is a total turn off. – Does Amma say everyone should be Hindu? Does Amma say everyone should have an astrological chart done? No, she does not. She accepts people of every faith, or scientific persuasion. – What would She say about this? I think I will ask her.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 10:08am

It is also a way people do when they are lazy and don't understand BUT want to understand and put in their own efforts to learn That they challenge you for you to spill the most relevant info which they then learn from you. So be careful of these types of people and don't let others take you out of your center! That is what is happening here. Make them learn from the beginning like we all do!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 10:04am

I am not a believer of astrologers but, Sam Geppi is the real thing. Next to the astrologers that followed a wandering star in search of the savior over 2,000 years ago. Even Nostradamus used astrology in his later years . None of these earlier astrologist were wrong about their predictions…. Astrology was the first form of astronomy. There is no hocus pocus involved in astrology, like astronomy it is based on the alignment of celestial bodies and math. To assume and not attempt to understand astrology is nothing but remaining ignorant. We are all made from the same matter of the stars and celestial bodies in space. So why wouldn't their alignment reflect on us.

I am not saying you should devote your entire life to believing everything astrology says but, it can be insightful and helpful. Ultimately we all have freewill so can decided what you want to believe or not believe from astrology. Sam Geppi as far as I've seen has been right on his forecasts .

I too have dabbled with making natal charts. My first book on the subject was The New A to Z Horoscope Maker and Delineator by Llewellyn George. This text book is filled with information to anyone interested in expanding their mind.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 10:03am

I love that I have astrology to guide me thru life. And SAMs astrology is quite accurate. As well as others I follow. I feel if you know how to read it it can save yourself from many disasters or becoming so confused as WHY events are happening. If it does not coincide with someone maybe their birth info is not true. I am really praying we don't become a COMMUNIST country and have our freedoms taken away as it seems so many things like that are occurring in America the Free! Let people do what they need to do to feel happy in this world ! Astrology is NOT hurting it is helping. Anyway they can try with all their fears to dismantle but will only do it to themselves!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:56am

A very interesting and timely article by Sam Geppi. Those who oppose to astrological theory, proof and concepts, have to read something like “Chaos Theory” to understand the scientific viewpoint towards developing astrology. (Please note that a very few US Universities offer a post graduate level course in maths/Physics deptt. on Chaos Theory). A visit to website http://www.chaosastrology.net/ may also be useful, provided chaos theory is understood.
Also, the publication- Briggs, J., & Peat, F.D. (1989). Turbulent Mirror: An illustrated guide to chaos theory and the science of wholeness. Harper & Row, New York, is useful.

Our society, by definition is always lagging behind scientific understanding. It takes a long time before old worldviews, old beliefs and old habits die. So critising astrology is a old habit; but such critics have to understand also the phenomena of ” The Foundations of Science are shaking” (http://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/SODA_chapter2.html)

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:53am

Namaste Sam: thank you very much for your great awareness on this very vast scientific subject which is based on astronomy, geometry and higher mathematics as well as over five thousand years of recorded charts on many many famous people who had their charts cast before major events took place and in some cases after the fact hundreds of years later. The accuracy of this science is spot on and it is quite difficult to state that on other sciences that are based on theoretical knowledge which is here today and gone tomorrow. Astronomy is exact, because the planetary bodies, especially the ones in our solar system, exist and have unchanging and predictable movements and orbits. Math is an exact science, which is what is used for the calculations of Jyotish. Thanks to you and the other wonderful Jyotish teachers out there bringing "light" into our lives as we navigate the course of our individual lives. Jeanine Ligon

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:50am

Know Thyself: Astrology is a very valid path on this Universal Quest. Astrology offers us a blueprint that stimulates our Memory of who we are. Sam's superb expertise in and connection with this marvelous science is a Gift to us all.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:49am

I’m not going to engrose myself in a battle of wills of who is right or wrong, who knows the truth or not. That is not for me to decide because reality is based on a complex system of ones interpretations. Reality is subjective everything we absorb through our senses are already just a representation of “reality” a close representation but nonetheless not flawless. But as to Sam’s work in astrology I can say that the principles are better than years of therapy or following a Guru or any happy pill a doctor could prescribe. There is no quick fix for the transformation which takes place by imbibing the lessons from his work whether or not you believe in astrology.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:43am

Astrology is a Time Honored science and Mr Geppi is a stellar ( pun intended! LOL) practitioner of this invaluable tool. He makes it all accessible and easy to apply to our lives, yet also presents his observations in a way that opens one's mind to the very real workings of planetary transits that DO have a pull and effect on our state of being. We are not inconsequential, random disconnected pieces of matter. We are all connected to to the smallest blade of grass, the vastness of the oceans and the elegant Order of the movements of celestial bodies. Astrology, and especially Vedic Astrology, deepens one's relationship to the Self and the very real and alive Universe that we inhabit. Open your mind! Sam Geppi walks his talk, and exemplifies scholarly wisdom and Selfless Service. Thank you, Sam for enriching the lives of so many of us!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:37am

Criticizing Vedic Astrology (Jyotish), or anything for that matter, without a real experience of it shows an insecurity with sense of self; as long as you let your ideas define you a challenge to those beliefs will threaten your self-esteem: the very source of happiness and comfort. In my opinion, this article is as much about that process of self-analysis as about astrology. Understanding the spirit is about deepening sense of self to that which is eternal in nature.

So the challenge has been made: witness it for yourself. Anyone who thinks Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) is bogus should go to a legit Vedic Astrologer (such as Sam) and get a general reading, that is if you are secure enough with yourself to test your own ideas.

Objectively, if you want to know what Jyotish is and why it is used then research the Vedas. If you want to know how it works then read the Brihat Parasara Hora Shastra. An understanding short of either these things will be unsustainable.

Namaste

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:19am

It's like someone asking if you "believe" in UFO's……. what's belief got do do with it? Either they are real or they are not, no amount of "belief" will change that. Unfortunately these days of the Kali Yuga people believe whatever they think, and mistake that for the truth.

I understand what Sam is saying, he is distinguishing truth from a persons belief, they are two different things. Vedic astrology has a long history of tradition.

I'm familiar with Tibetan astrology which is based on star, and elemental combined. A Lama once told me that half of the astrology, was lost in the past, and we only know half of this science today.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:15am

Dear Sam,
I simple want to testify how much I have learned and enjoy your daily/
Weekly astrological information.
You, Sam, have a gift!
The way you explain astrology to us ( I always am fascinated by astrology-
But I am not an astrologer) – it is so down to earth! I have studied Buddhism,
And Hinduism for a long time, so find your gift to us to be exquisite!
I thank you for posting all the videos for free, the classes for free, the seminars
For free! Thank you for the light you share with all of us.
In gratitude,
Charu rachlis

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:10am

Thanks for the article Sam. Surely by now there are countless people who have been helped and guided by jyotish scientists like yourself. This science has been used to improve people’s awareness of themselves, those around them and the larger world (universe), and thus makes for a more happy and fruitful life. A good jyotish practitioner like Sam will adapt this ancient science to the conditions of the modern world.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:09am

Astrology is a science. It's a predictive science. Are all predictive sciences 100% correct? No. Take meteorology for example, it's not 100% correct either. Yet, nobody calls them snake oil salesmen. Why? Einstein's principles were used for much destruction. Yet, nobody calls him the evil guy. Why not? People in science have caused untold good, and untold suffering. I feel there's a cultivated bias against astrology, homeopathy, ayurveda etc, and it comes from so called scientists and rationalists with no rational thought, but just a bunch of prejudices, and who are parroting somebody else's words without proper research. Astrology cannot be 100% correct, because the interpreter errors come into the picture, but the probability (and confidence level) of it is being correct is pretty high, provided the interpreter is good. And i am in science by the way.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:08am

Really! Of course, astrology may be a science or not according to the person's knowledge. There are many who pratice astrology like a belief and extremely non-scientific and there are those like Sam, whose entire practice is science. Sam obviously was talking about his practice. Give it up Jon and others

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:04am

Sam, Thank you so much for your brilliant article! Such wisdom and clarity.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:03am

The Bible is full of astrology and appears to have been written by them. The Bible is also full of allegories which Christians take literally and miss the whole point of the Bible. Science is proving this, the christians who insist that these allegories are literal are banging their head on a concrete wall. I am referring to women talking to snakes and other strange or impossible events in the Bible– these events are signs that there is an important spiritual message contained. If we want a history book there are plenty of them and we dont need more to fill the spiritual void. These same ignorant people ( I used to be one and I left) attack Hinduism and even modern science or they just remain ignorant of the world around them while they blindly believe what men in robes tell them. it seems in order to be a Christian you check your brain at the door then come back and get it after serviceso you can drive home and work another week.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 8:48am

Love how you get people out of their box ~ Keep going Sam Keep inspiring

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 8:42am

You think astrology is superstition? Try ignorance instead. Think back to the Middle Ages in Europe, when rare solar eclipses caught people completely off guard and sent them into a panic. Science got a big boost in the 1700s when Edmund Halley correctly predicted the path of an eclipse over England, and when it would happen, and even had his prediction published in the newspapers of the day. But then he died before he could see it. So everyone waited with baited breath, to see if the old guy was right. Yup, he was spot-on about the time; his calculations for the path were only off by a couple of degrees. Finally, here was proof that an eclipse was not a portent of apocalypse, but a natural phenomenon that could be mathematically predicted and measured. The real question is whether astrology can predict events here at Earth School, and whether we can do anything about them in advance. I didn't need another personality profile (for that, I use handwriting analysis); I wanted SOLUTIONS. A chart is a call-to-action ("karma" means "action"). According to astrology, I happen to have a Moon placement that gives me a hidden gift for "turning the poison into the elixir." OK, now that I know this, what do I do? How do I embody this gift? Once I started looking for ways to put it to good use, my life started to get better.

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 3:24pm

    beautiful!

    anonymous May 5, 2012 11:21am

    Rosanna, Edmund Halley was talking as an astronomist, not an astrologer.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 8:40am

I think astrology forecasts in the paper are generalized, but if a person has their chart done they will see how astrology applies to them.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 8:36am

Well, I am a scientist and I would say there is ample evidence that astrology is a science. In fact, many of the most esteemed scientists throughout history believed that astrology and mysticism were the keys to a greater reality. A greater truth. That includes Newton and Einstein. The problem with a few commenteurs and our world in general is a belief, yes a belief, that if it cannot be touched or seen or explained, it isn't real. This is a belief system of the modern world. A world that has killed God and our spirituality. Or, at least it has attempted to do so. Science is simply an outward manifestation of the search for truth. The same search for truth that guides us on our inner journey. There are ample long and short term astrological cycles that impact weather, energy, and life on our planet. Most astrophysicists and astronomers understand this.

One explanation of why astrology may work is that it is quite plausible that the universe is a creation of the human mind. If that is so, and many in science believe it may be so since the advent of quantum physics, then astrology may simply be a self-fulfilling prophecy created by our mind. Who knows. Don't discount out of hand what you don't understand.

Namaste

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 8:33am

There has been much debate on astrology on how it works if it works does it work …only does it work if it is employed,much like a worker scientifically is employed if he works,neither works if not employed. Namste' Blessings,Love and Light,DenRA

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 8:20am

I really do not care what negative people think or say about vedic astrology. It works, it's scientific. I & my family use it to help us get through the challenges that we face & increase the bliss in our lives.
Thank you Sam for sharing your knowledge.
Love & Light,
Kayshwarie

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 8:11am

Sometimes it surprises me how people from different cultures have different beliefs I am from India and Astrology is a part of life there …Yes should all decisions be made on Astrology Alone the Answer is NO one should live their lives and let it take shape !! But not to believe is Astrology is really like not to believe in a Doctor …they say you get cured faster if you have faith ..It is the same with Astrology when you believe and do it with Awareness it gets you results !! So ultimately it is all about WHAT YOU HAVE FAITH IN !!

    anonymous May 5, 2012 11:19am

    Ahhhh, the placebo effect. The pill had nothing in it but the patient assumed it did and got better. Yes, I agree. Astrology is a sugar pill. No substance but people think there is something useful in it.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:57am

I have studied astrology for years and and believe me it is a sceince. and i will stand behind sam all the way.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:56am

I believe in astrology and I also know that Sam Geppi,has been educating me thru his emails and webnair..

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:48am

Astrology is a science. but for proffing it now as on date we are not having anything. scietifically.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:37am

Interesting article Sam. Thanks for sharing it. I suspect it is really OK if there are people who disagree with the conclusions you draw in this article. As a research scientist, I have come to understand the process is: develop a hypothesis, test the hypothesis, observe, and evaluate the results. Often, people argue about the results. It is a normal part of the process. Stick to the facts. What do you know as a direct cause and effect relationship? What are the variables? How do you account for the variables? If you are in question, re-evaluate the facts. – It is a regular part of the process to have what is often called – peer review. It is normal to have people strongly disagree with one's interpretation of the facts. Sam, you must look past the delivery to the content of what is being written in response to your article. Remember, Stick & Stones etc..

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:35am

Bless you Sam for your great presence!

“…Astrology is the practice of connecting your limited mind and intellect with the cosmic mind that produced it (and everything else).
It is my hope that the modern world returns to the glory of this universal study.
Everyone wants to know their place in the universe, and astrology is the study of that.”

I sincerely hope that the day will come that astrology, yoga, meditation etc will be truly understood and practiced for a better humanity.

Thanks for all your efforts!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:27am

Dear Sam
I enjoyed your article. Beliefs are like viruses. They sneak in under the radar and are difficult to get rid of once entrenched.

I perceive the practice of Yoga and Astrology to be quite scientific, an exercise in discernment, or, the action of a distinguishing mind. What is sought in these disciplines, in my opinion, is knowledge of the self. This is difficult to measure or prove empirically. Perhaps impossible. Even Carl Sagan used the somewhat trite saying "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" (BTW, so did Donald Rumsfeld)

In the West, we are obsessed with measurement. Likewise, time is inexorably connected with duration. We do, however, like to use phrases such as "quality time" when we perceive a situation to be pleasant without considering that time does, indeed, have different qualities. Astrology, in my opinion, addresses the potentials of different qualities of time. Measurement is not a bad thing. Quite the opposite. It's just not the only thing.

Life is the miracle. From the Latin, miraculum "object of wonder" That we have consciousness to "wonder with" is also miraculous. This is just my opinion. Is that the same as a belief?

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 3:22pm

    "In the West, we are obsessed with measurement. Likewise, time is inexorably connected with duration. We do, however, like to use phrases such as "quality time" when we perceive a situation to be pleasant without considering that time does, indeed, have different qualities. Astrology, in my opinion, addresses the potentials of different qualities of time. Measurement is not a bad thing. Quite the opposite. It's just not the only thing. "

    Awesome analogy

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:25am

Spiritulising science! Not that long ago the idea of neuroplasticity would has been seen as hocus-pocus. And yet, and yet, the Rishis and the ancient Vedic knowledge would also acknowledge and encompass this. Let the nay sayers talk and talk and talk. Vedic knowledge is still alive and as pertinent today as it was thousands of years ago. Vedic Astrology is still as pertinent today as it has always been. And if you don't agree that too is okay. It may not be for everyone. Thank goodness there are choices.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:07am

Great article, Sam. Thank you. I believe in Astrology too and have since I was very young. I also realize that science is based on theories… not necessarily facts, many have changed since their original hypothesis was defined. The one that comes to mind for me just now is Darwinism. If you read "The Bond" by Lynn McTaggart you'll find that science is now realizing that nature is far more collaborative and cooperative than it is aggressive and determined by the survival of the fittest. Please keep up the great work you're bringing to the world. I so appreciate your perspective on the dance the planets, stars and moons are doing and their affect on us. May your blessings be overflowing. Namaste`

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 6:54am

I experience the stars and moon looking up at them every night. They remind me of God/Creator. The Book of Romans in the New Testament states mankind is without excuse (if they say they don't believe in God/Creator) because Creation is proof. Here on our Planet and in our Solar System and beyond. Science has proven there is a grand and specific design. Science is even proving that from the galaxy to the human cell – it's basically the same on different proportions. Even the Earth has an aura and is a living being. Quantum physics is proving when you get down to the smallest portion of an atom it can have many different outcomes – even two can occupy the same space. Whatever is here (on Earth) is also in Heaven; whatever is in Heaven is also here on Earth – the Earth is a reflection of the Heavens. We are connected to all we see and all that is in-between what we see. Science-Spirituality-Cosmos these three are One. We're all just discovering them differently at different times and that's allowed.

    anonymous May 5, 2012 11:15am

    Science says nothing about a supposed place called "Heaven".

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 6:43am

Oh yes, astrology is a science! I just took my Level 1 NCGR exam (Western astrology) and I can tell you that it had as much math in it as a high level physics exam. I have a huge background in the sciences and a master's degree in computer science and my parents are chemists (my dad has a PhD in organic chemistry and my mom a Masters in chemical engineering and also an MBA). I would tell Jon that if he doubts that astrology is a science to actually take the Level 1 NCGR exam. If you do not have a good math background or the ability to understand cycles like you have to in physics or chemistry or be able to see patterns like in math, then you will simply not pass the exam. Can't get more precise that that. Astrology is not fluff in the least!

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:40am

    You're argument is that astrology is a science because it has math in it and because there is an exam? I don't agree with this.
    Doesn't this make roulette a science?

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 12:01pm

    Astrology is based on astronomy. Astronomy is a science, with math etc. Astrology is the art of interpretation of astronomical facts.

      anonymous May 5, 2012 11:13am

      Astronomy is the science. Astrology is the quackery that has arisen from it.

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 12:23pm

    Astrology is observable, testable, and predictive qua science. As an ex-scientist, I find astrology more so of these things then the science training that I was applying in the lab.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 6:42am

The scientist only believes what he can measure, see and control…….I have yet to find one of Sam's reading's anything less than spot on, and offering a total explanation of why and what is going on at a particular moment. Hey what do I know dead people talk to me and I" know" things about people , places and things that happen to an individual just by talking on the phone with them. I must be the true snake oil salesman!

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 6:40am

Jon, why not have Sam draw your chart and you will have the "proof" of the science of astrology yourself. Would that not be enough of an "empirical"evidence for you? There is only "one"of you so double blind etc is somewhat difficult but I challenge you to investigate the wisdom (that is more than just science) of astrology. Surprise yourself…………….

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 8:31am

    I would really like to see this proof. This is all very hand wavy.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 6:35am

I do think astrology as a science. Just like there are good doctors and bad doctors, there are good astrologers and those that do not know their stuff. Sam: please continue to do what you do. It helps many of us out there.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 6:32am

My experience with astrology shows it works. Unless one has studied the subject and experimented with it, any view one has of it is unsubstantiated opinion. As far as predictions: possibilities, yes. Certainties, not so much. But the scientific method results in similar outcomes and occasionally, a certainty. But the issue is really: have you studied and experimented with a subject, theory, opinion, whatever. The important thing is to remain neutral and objective and put things to a test. Neither accept nor reject. Test and see what happens. And play fair. Test without bias or favor.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 6:29am

Well put Sam, I don't know exactly how it all works, but I have observed that most of it does work. I have found it useful at times to observe that some of my urges and feelings might be related to or reflected in certain planetary positions and alignments. A little heads-up like I got yesterday helps me focus my will on my aims and avoid being swept along with the cultural currents. I feel nothing in astrology is preordained and we are not puppets on a string. Astrological energies themselves are neutral energies; there is no "good" planet vs. "bad" planet. The stars impel, they do not compel. There is something valuable to learn in every situation, however painful. It is up to us to search for the meaning. It is how we apply the energies in force that makes all the difference.
Astrology has vastly improved the quality of my life and the qualitiy of my mind, only a few people know of my intrest in it, i do not feel the need to convince anyone of anything, those who get it get it, those who don't do not. But i guarantee if one takes the time to study astrology, you soon realize it is so omnipresent that virtually you can look at anything and everything through its prism and see its workings. Blessings 2 u Sadasiva

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 6:10am

“Because astrology cannot produce consistant testable explanations and predictions it is not a science.”

I am having trouble with Jon’s sentence because it confuses facts.

Thesis One: “Astrology can not produce consistent testable explanations”.

What do you mean by explanations? How it works? Well, we don’t know how gravity works, and we accept it as as a fact. The fact is much of modern science theory is based on theories that are hinted at in the mathematics but is not confirmed by observation because much of the phenomenon can’t be observed. We can’t “see” the motion of quarks, but have a certain set of belief’s about them. Certain theories, like that of supersymmetry and supergravity are dependent for each other’s existence. Its all very theoretical and based on “predictions” of their existence, yet is considered science.

Therefore, I submit Jon’s second thesis “predictions is not a science” is invalid. Science is based on prediction and the testing of that prediction.

If Jon is postulating that Astrology, separate and apart can not produce testable results, well, this has been repeated by by skeptics time immemorial and it does not reflect the facts.

I’ve written about this at length on my own blog and if Sam will allow me to print a link it is here: http://astrologyexplored.net/home/?p=1956.

Astrology does produce repeatable, testable result despite the obstacles placed before it before skeptics and some of those in the scientific community.

As far as there being different schools of astrology proving the invalidity of it, this again is a very old argument. The fact is that science tells us that the way the human brain organizes information (much like a compression and “unzip” programs for electronic communications) makes it a prediction machine. Therefore, however we assemble the information is a function of the human brain, and not a testament to the validity or invalidity of various systems of organizing information. The question is “does the information within its own school of practice produce replicable results?” If yes, then it works, and its working does not invalidate another school of practice.

Now some astrologer prefer to practice from a spiritual base, This does not invalidate their practice. My opinion is that much of ancient spiritual practice is rooted in a fundamental understanding of how the Universe works. For instance, the ancient Druids used in their astrology five elements and the description of those elements come eerily close to the descriptions various quarks.

For the record, I myself don’t “believe” in astrology either. I don’t need to. It just works.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 6:03am

Astrology is definitely a science. If used in the right way it does provide alot of clarity in thinking and serves as a tool to fulfill experiences in a person's lifetime. To understand its importance it is necessary to delve in its origin and history. Thank you Sam for the article.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 5:56am

Hum…..not sure that we are intelligent here in the western world. Millions of us are asleep consciously, mostly covered up by materialism and the illusions they bring to bury us even deeper. Indeed, we are not honoring the sun and it’s miracles because we are not honouring our beloved mother Nature as well because of our ignorance. Unfortunately most of us are asleep and are not even aware of much other than the alcohol or other drugs, legal or illegal they need to take just to get through another day. This is ehy we work so hard…..those of us who are conscious! We are trying to help our brothers and sisters wake up….at least to the fact we are all connected divinely to each other and that we all have a purpose and divine destiny in life. We work hard, to help others wake up…..and when we die, our work will take on deeper work by others who hopefully will inspire more and more unconscious people to wake up. This is our responsibility.

For the few of us who at least have an opinion, I would say, please try to have no opinion…..it’s quite freeing! Instead, I would ask you to open your heart and let life and it’s continual miracles bless you…..as we continue on this beautiful journey, spinning 1,000 miles an hour in this magnificent galaxy of ours.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 5:55am

it is an art form based on scientific principles and works as a form of divination. thanes

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 5:45am

When we get to grips with all this it will change again anyway! Thank you for trying to post flags it is appreciated

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 5:21am

sam thank you for your insight. I believe we are close to the place where science and faith meet. mel

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 5:54am

    When meteorologists can accurately predict the weather (which will be never) then we might say science know’s Gods mind.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 5:19am

Hi, I was relatively recently introduced to Vedic astrology, the type Sam Geppi discusses here. I was truly amazed at the accuracy of one's vedic chart and its ability to diagnose a person's state: physically, emotionally and spiritually. It's from India and quite ancient, and as such, requires a depth of understanding/innate wisdom most westerners are not used to. It's a completely different construct of life and living. I'm an educated person, got my PhD, attended excellent universities here in the states and abroad, and I can attest, there's a sacred truth in this science, uncannily so. You doubt Sam Geppi and this type of astrology reading? Then test it out! Get a reading done, and THEN discuss your views. That way those same views come from direct experience. Just a suggestion… No one article or discussion can encapsulate a person's complete understanding of a concept, nor should assumptions be made after one article. Wise people don't do that. Who knows if there was editing involved, prior knowledge required to understand certain concepts etc. Again, the best way is to do the research and try it yourself.

anonymous Apr 30, 2012 3:28am

Man Quite an exercise in ignorance and confused thinking.
a.“ God must be a belief, either for or against, because it can’t be directly perceived or known as an experience ” Totally wrong The Divine has been and can be experienced directly
b.Belief always precedes practice. The person who practices something he doesn’t believe in would be bonkers.
c.How does astrology work ? At one level, it is a set of road signs set up by the Intelligence….the underlying connection with the Force that creates, maintains and will destroy this Universe is known to the great Rishis.
d.“the doctor doesn’t know “how” the body does what it does ” He does. Semantic quibbling about what constitutes knowledge is the area of the charlatan and the confused one.
e.“Everything that has lived or will ever live on Earth was created by the Sun and Moon and other Grahas” What nonsense. The same Force which created the Sun and Moon, created every blade of grass.
f. “ In this modern era, we are all Brahmins (educated people)” Utter nonsense. brahma janati brahmanah One who knows Brahman is a Brahmana..Knowing the brahman is not education…far more than that with Divine grace being an essential ingredient.
g.“Intelligence devoid of wisdom is more dangerous than ignorance” As if intelligence and wisdom are entirely different rather than aspects of the same faculty….The present post however has neither quality nor even basic knowledge

anonymous Apr 29, 2012 10:08pm

PART 2

Yes John, I do believe that spirit has taken form and that there is a deeper force behind matter. For instance, I believe that there is a force inside of you as you read this compelling you to take action (or not). We call that "karma" in Eastern thought – actions compelled by spirit, which accumulate through many lifetimes.

I don't believe your previous response was simply a matter of fingers pounding on the keyboard. I, and the culture of the east -which includes yoga, Buddhism, etc. believe in that deeper, spirit behind form. That matter is compelled by thought, feeling, spirit – Karma. No, I am not waiting for the New England Journal of Medicine to write an article on it.

Your challenge for me to produce a scientific document from the New England Journal of Medicine stating such, shows your bias, and exactly what I refer to in the article when I discussed our "Belief in Science". You believe in science, more specifically, Western scientific institutions such as the New England Journal of Medicine. If they say it you will believe it because it is peer-reviewed, etc. OK, fair enough. I would also likely believe something written by them. I also believe in the western scientific method, but I also apply those western methods toward Eastern metaphysic models as dissecting / magnifying matter can only go so far and will only yield so much truth.

So Jon, let me ask you this. Is everything NOT not peer reviewed or written about by these sources you believe in, false? Or to state it positively, are the only things that are true and factual found in these journals? (and others like them) What about things they have not reviewed yet or things Western sciences have totally written off entirely or cannot tackle.

No, they have not because there are way too many areas where the physical sciences cannot reach. That is why others study metaphysics. Yoga and astrology are metaphysical sciences – as are other Indian Sciences, like Ayurveda – the medical system of India (which by the way uses astrology).

I must confess, I have a little more experience than you do in this debate. I have witnessed this discussion for decades. "Science", or "Scientific method" is the real religion in the West. If we think something has been “scientifically proven” only then will we believe it. You say it yourself, produce a Western scientific document then I'll believe it. Astrology is tolerated as long as it dare not encroach upon our sacrosanct “Western sciences” and theories we all "believe in". By the way, I do believe in the theory of evolution. But I also know it is a belief, not a proven fact. And perhaps you need to open your mind a little bit more as well to what I discuss in this article about "belief and fact".

The truth is, I have no problem with Western scientific methods, and I don't see where I have expressed any contempt for it. You're inferring that contempt on my part. I have the utmost respect for Western scientific methods, and I use them all the time in astrology – so did the Rishis (Scientists of India). The difference is, myself and others who also practiced Eastern (meta)physics, also acknowledge the existence of those things that extend beyond our gross senses – those things Western sciences cannot reach or measure.

Surely you must acknowledge that there are things which exist beyond what we can measure with our gross senses. For instance, thoughts feelings and emotions or what one might call “spirit". Do these things not exist? How does the New England Journal of Medicine explain where our thoughts come from, or where our feelings come from? Can you produce the document they have written that proves they exist, how they come and where they come from? If I slice open your head and dissect your brain will I find your thoughts in there? Until Western science can answer these questions as well, metaphysics must be on the table.

Anyway, again I thank you for the discussion. I bet that you and I face-to-face would have a lot more in common than we think.

Best of luck with your studies, Jon

    anonymous May 4, 2012 5:05pm

    Oh boy, you revealed your true self when you wrote; "I do believe in the theory of evolution. But I also know it is a belief, not a proven fact. "
    You just revealed you misunderstand what "theory" means in the scientific community. Its like you're as close to a creationist as can be. For goodness sake, "belief" is merely an unverifiable personal feeling/value. The theory of evolution IS FACT. If you knew anything about it you would know that it is an accepted fact by all scientists (except a few nutty creationists, but all fields have a few of those 🙂 ). There are mountains of documented evidence, gathered over many years to demonstrate it.

    Astrology has long since been debunked by any serious scholar in cosmology, physics, quantum mechanics to name a few scientific specialities. For pete's sake, a beginner level science class will explain this: The four forces of our universe: gravity, electro-magnetism, strong and weak nuclear force. None of these are strong enough on any planet to affect us on Earth in any way. This is what Carl Sagan was talking about (although I have to give you credit for being brave enough to include this in your essay). In other words, the whole "Mercury is in retrograde" mutterings are complete nonsense. But alas, people WANT to believe things. People want to believe there is a caring man in the sky watching over us. People want to believe there is a safe and wonderful place that we go to after we die (and thus don't expire fully upon our death). This doesn't make any of it true. You want to believe there is a "spirit". But like the invisible man in the sky, heaven, and eternal life, astrology is wishful thinking that can give us a warm and contented feel that we're all taken care of in this vast universe.

anonymous Apr 29, 2012 10:08pm

Hi Jon,
thanks for the conversation, truly. First thing I want to say is you're not my enemy. Also, I don't blame you for thinking astrology is “pseudoscience”. I realize many or most of the people who discuss astrology do not have very good explanations for it. I'll let you in on a little secret. Part of the reason I wrote this article is also the sort of nudge those people who “believe in astrology”, and implore them to study a little bit more, so if and when they wind up discussing it they don't sound so uninformed.

With that said, I have a few things offer, and i am just going to speak frankly.

First of all, when you say “You are right in that i don't know much about astrology”, let's be clear, please. You don't know anything about astrology, at least not the astrology that I practice and millions study and practice worldwide. To you, and those with your point of view, you are actually discussing “Horoscopes" or “pop astrology”, the thing Carl Sagan ridiculed, Bill Nye ridiculed – and what typically gets ridiculed and labeled as “astrology" in the west by those like you who do not know any better. The truth is, that is not astrology, any more than looking through a telescope is “astronomy”.

So again, you do not know anything about astrology. You don't realize how much it's tested, researched, and has been poured over and debated for centuries and centuries, much longer in fact than western sciences – The several millennia of observations and endless detail, (what you glorify as "peer review") has led to remarkably uniformity between systems and models. By the way, this information is readily available to anyone who cares to know. Astrology is a Open secret.

But I realized the big problem you have with my article. It comes from this quote, which by the way is the only thing from what I wrote you actually quoted (the rest of your ideas are opinions about what you think I mean, which are badly flawed assumptions on your part – and for a scientist like you – that is not very scientific).

You quoted me:
"Astrology is the science of how and why spirit takes form."

Then said:
"Show me any piece of "science" proving such a thing as the spirit even exists or has ever taken form. All you had to do prove my point wrong was to provide evidence. Maybe link to a Science, Cell, New England Journal of Medicine, or Nature article? ".

It seems your big problem is:
1. I assume spirit has taken form and
2. The New England Journal of Medicine (or similarly respected institution) has never written an article about it (which to you would constitute"proof").

anonymous Apr 29, 2012 12:39am

Nicole, http://freeastrologycd.com is the link.. the "http:" did not post.

jon, I am not sure why you think astrology does not meet the standard you quoted:
"from wiki:
Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe. "

Actually, on second thought, I do know why you said that, because you know nothing about astrology. You are projecting your beliefs about it, exactly as I described in the article. I welcome discussion about this, but I feel no need to mince words with people like you who simply attack by saying "You clearly don't understand the meaning of the term science", then go on to define astrology quite perfectly, by the "wikipedia" definition of Science.

LOL. You have no idea how ironic that is.

As I explained (and as the astrologers / astrology students here already know), astrology does "produce consistent testable explanations and predictions". Astrologers are not fortune tellers any more than doctors are fortune tellers.

"guest",
Sorry your prejudices prevented you from actually contributing anything to the discussion, besides calling it BS. But good, at least you stopped reading half way through.

"Snake oil salesman.."

Unbelievable to read that in 2012 on a Yoga themed / consciousness oriented space like this.

    anonymous Apr 29, 2012 5:38pm

    You are right in that i don't know much about astrology. I was going based off what you wrote, "Astrology is the science of how and why spirit takes form." Show me any piece of "science" proving such a thing as the spirit even exists or has ever taken form. All you had to do prove my point wrong was to provide evidence. Maybe link to a Science, Cell, NewEngland Journal of Medicine, or Nature article? oh wait, such an article doesn't exist.

    I was not attacking you, I would have been much aggressive and insulting if I had been. I stand by my statements. If you are not ignorant than you are stupid (see that was an attack).

    I am a scientist. I am phd student in the sciences. People like you do a disservice to everyone working hard to shed the negative ideas of what things such as "science" and "theory" are and mean. You arguments remind me of people who claim that evolution isn't real because its only a "theory". These people clearly dont understand the definition of the term as you clearly don't understand science or what "consistent testable explanations and predictions" means.

    Finally, you claim that it is unbelievable to read these comments in a yoga theme space frankly disgusts me. Not everyone who practices yoga is ignorant and nieve. If you post trash expected to be called out on it and defend it. You are the one who posted this sp be ready to hear from people who disagree with you.

    Articles like this are bad for elephant journal as they present misinformation.
    ps i used the wiki link cause i figured that is something you might be used to cause you obviously haven't read a peer reviewed science text book in a while

anonymous Apr 28, 2012 10:49pm

ok, sorry but this is the biggest BS I've ever read. you obviously have no idea what science is or how science works. but you are abusing it for your purposes. I stopped reading half way through because I didn't want to scream at my screen.
Well done elephantjournal, another snake oil salesman. This article should be offensive to any critical thinking and somewhat educated person.
I want my money back. 🙁

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 6:56am

    Typical ignoramus response. Not really entitled to an opinion, since you know NOTHING ABOUT IT.

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:19am

    I think your comment is very rude and unfair.
    And as the saying goes: "The highest form of ignorance is when rejecting something you don't know anything about!"

    Sam Geppi is an extraordinary astrologer and teacher, in fact I regard him as one of the best Jyotishis (Vedic Astrologers)
    of our times. He has the intelligence, the consciousness, the devotion as well as a lot of experience in his field.

    So your comment about the snake oil salesman is downright disrespectful!

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 7:52am

    Astrology is a "trusted science" that has been practiced in India for more than 4,000 years. Obviously you know nada about astrology, as you unscientifically render a judgement based on your own ignorance. Study Jyotish, the Science of Light, educate yourself, and then your opinion will have value.

      anonymous Jul 29, 2012 2:04pm

      Not to be rude, but look at the state India is in. Most of the population is dirt poor and the country is filthy. Only a handful have extreme wealth and they control the peasants. So called "gurus" tell people they should be poor and live "humbly", because it is "divine". There is nothing divine about poverty in the least. It is actually the opposite of divine! If India has been studying astrology for 4000 years…I think it's time to wake up and get a new belief system, because apparently that one is not working.

        anonymous May 20, 2013 11:35pm

        lols. i am an indian and i teach the kids in the so called 'developed' west. You seriously need to stop thinking that india is just a land of snake charmers and tigers.
        i hope you get everything you ever hoped to buy cos then you will know that that is not what will bring you happiness.
        extremely ignorant response from a dicey guy/gal. 🙂

    anonymous May 4, 2012 11:41pm

    Sam, this is in response to the guest who said that your work is the biggest BS he or she had ever read. And that you are our snake oil salesman and that your article is offensive to a somewhat educated person.
    First, if there is anything offensive, it is the language and the rudeness of the e mail from someone whom I believe is a total ignoramus about western and eastern astrology and scientific matters. Let me just put down some points in defense of Sam who has been kind enough to share his knowledge to his "snake oil students:"
    1. When Isaac Newton was asked why he was such a fool to have believed in astrology because he was a scientist, his answer was, "Sir, I have studied, while you have not." Mr. Rude Critic, how far have you gone in science and astrology or even in your normal education as well. Did you finish grade or high school? Your rude and sweeping remarks seem to tell me that you aint got much up there in your cerebral cortex. Do you?
    2. Now, let's support Sam's assertions:
    2.1 Mr. Critic, read "Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain," by Steve and Sheila Ostrander (circa early 70s). Russia spent billions of money in paranormal research. A certain scientist/doctor was able to discover a system of birth control as well as determining the sex of the baby based on astrological configurations. Even the fertility of a lady can be calculated based on the aspect between the sun and the moon, among other things. Now you call that BS and offensive to an educated person.
    2.2 Now, since you started this libelous exchange, under American law and laws applicable to the country having jurisdiction over me, one has the right to retort with a libelous remark by way of a defense, to another libelous remark. Are you aware of that, Mr. Educated Critic? You talk about education– do you have anything to show? Come on, I challenge you. Walk the Talk. I have studied astrology both eastern and western since I was educated in an exclusive Catholic school when I was 13. I finished my degree in psychology in the most prestigious state university in my country, cum laude. I took up law in the same university- where I graduated with honors, top 3 of my batch while I was a working student. I never applied for a job in a law firm or in a corporate legal department. I had always been invited by the most prestigious and biggest firms and corporations. I have been a trial lawyer for decades and I know how to decide things on the basis of evidence. I have weighed my astrological configurations since I was a kid until now, after decades and decades of very hectic lawyering. the evidence based on my experience shows that astrology works even if the quantum of evidence which you use is proof beyond reasonable doubt.
    2.3 Are you aware of how Dr. Carl Gustav Jung was able to accurately match hundreds of charts of married couples by picking and analyzing them from a ton of mixed charts?
    3. You are very rude. There are people here around the globe who's education, knowledge and intellectual stature I am sure, are far beyond your compare. Perhaps you ought to be sued for libel or defamation.
    4. So is that how you think you can insult and bull shit us?
    5. Well, Sam, I think its time that you really consider concocting a strong snake oil tonic and hand it over to the gentleman critic. Please make it good, fast and strong. And you know what I mean.
    You know, Mr. Critic, you shouldnt sound so rude or look like a bully here. If you were just physically present, I can perhaps teach you the meaning of respect in the way that the ancient warriors and martial artists of long ago do.
    Sam, please dont give lessons to rude people who dont even know the basics about how to respect other people. This sacred science has no room for such people. And Sam, and to the other supporters of Sam, my apologies for the strong language. Cannot help but to stand in righteous indigation in defense of Sam.

    Sam, just leave that guy alone. After this, he is not worth your time nor effort.
    More power to you, Sam.

    Rodolfo.

anonymous Apr 28, 2012 7:44pm

You clearly don't understand the meaning of the term science.

from wiki:
Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.

Science does not require belief whether you claim it does or not. Because astrology cannot produce consistant testable explanations and predictions it is not a science.

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 6:55am

    There's not much in so-called Science that can be proved, actually. After a few years go by, they always find something new to prove the old shit, wrongo.

      anonymous May 5, 2012 10:58am

      Spoken like a Rick Santorum fan.

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 11:10am

    Vedic astrology, and other systems of the ancient Near, Middle and Far East observed the planets with such accuracy that their astronomical measurements of the planets, and earthly calendars related to them are exact to this day.

    The calendars in the West (time based on phases of the moon and our movement relative to the sun) have had to be revised/rectified numerous times since, beginning (at least) with Julius Caesar's time, and again in the Middle Ages.
    This is science. Astronomy.
    In Vedic astrology (the science of the the stars begun in Ancient India), the calculations are based on the science of astronomy. Therefore, it is science-based.

    anonymous Apr 30, 2012 9:06pm

    You clearly don't understand anything.

anonymous Apr 28, 2012 2:58pm

nm i found it 🙂

anonymous Apr 28, 2012 2:31pm

Thank You for writing this Sam. I have never heard it put so beautifully and precisely why it is hard for me to explain my attraction and obsession with it… because it's not my 'belief' system, but rather something scientific…a study and an artform… and yes all science at the highest most subtle levels DO disagree or contradict. I love that: I also love the title Spiritual Scientists 🙂
So thank you again for your wonderful words. so many great quotes from this! You so nailed that floppy fried egg to the wall lol… ;P

And not to sound cheap, but that link to the free classes + shipping doesn't work… I am totally down for that deal if you can arrange a way. 🙂 Thanks!

Namaste

anonymous Apr 28, 2012 12:59pm

Nice! Astrology is fun and as long as common sense isn't ignored (example: consulting an astrologist to see if I should go to work today), then have at it. If I get the time I would love to take the course.

anonymous Apr 28, 2012 12:03pm

Thank you Sam for brining up a very important topic. I agree that Astrology is not a belief system and yet we are asked that all the time. I think astrology is a science as much as quantum physics is a science. Neither fit into the current western scientific models because both take the observer into account. That doesn't mean they aren't science, it means our model hasn't caught up. That's my 2 cents anyway.

    anonymous Apr 28, 2012 10:50pm

    do you know nothing about quantum physics, let alone science.

      anonymous Apr 29, 2012 10:26am

      I know enough to see the correlation. Take the wave-particle duality for instance: when we cast a chart of the heavens for a given moment in time as observed from a given place on Earth, we have collapsed the wave of planetary motion into a particle of their position at a precise moment & location. When this is done in quantum physics, the mathmatics of the wave function and accoustic resonance form probablitlity amplitudes of how a particle is likely to behave. This is where the harmonics of aspects come in with astrology as they form our probablility amplitudes inherent in our birth chart and with our transits as certain situations arise. For example, I know from the Mars-Ketu association in my astrology chart that my probability amplitude is to defend my position. I don't attack, but I do defend. Why is this probability amplitude manifesting today? Because the transit Sun happens to be in aspect to my Mars-Ketu and today it is exact with Ketu (defending). Case in point, astrology works.

    anonymous Apr 29, 2012 12:40am

    you are welcome Julene. Glad you liked it.

      anonymous Apr 30, 2012 11:30am

      Of course astrology is no quantum physics and for that matter no exact science. Correlations can be found everywhere if you want to find it…

anonymous Apr 28, 2012 4:20am

A very thoughtful and informative post. I agree with you that astrology is not a belief system and it's amazing how many people ask me, "do you believe in it?" As you say it's a practice, a study and, most importantly for me, it works. I don't think of astrology as a real science. For me personally it is an art form based on scientific principles and works as a form of divination. It's an important debate that astrologers must have to define what they think astrology is and isn't, so thank you. best, Sally

anonymous Apr 27, 2012 7:28pm

Good work Sam! Well said… "Intelligence devoid of wisdom is more dangerous than ignorance, and seems to sum up the plight of our modern world"