Dear Mr. Nice Guy: Let’s Just Be Friends.

Via Tamara Star
on Feb 19, 2015
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How many of us have turned ourselves inside out angsting over breaking up with the nice guy?

If you have, you know it’s brutal.

He’s attractive, kind, nice and giving, but there’s something there we just can’t respond to, something that makes us shut down sexually and send him straight into the friend-zone.

It’s easy enough to break up with the asshole, but the nice guy is an entirely different story.

Is it that we don’t really want the nice guys?

Not at all. It’s because we don’t want what the nice guy has to offer.

While most of us do want a nice, kind and giving man, we only want him to a point.

When a man is too nice, too kind or too giving, we sense bullshit. No one is nice all of the time except for pleasers, over givers and Mr. Nice Guys.

If a man falls into one of these categories, at first he might seem wonderful, but below the surface, on some level, he’s a liar—ultimately because he’s lying to himself.

Let’s start with Mr. Nice Guy. Women don’t want assholes, but we do want real. Mr. Nice Guy is too willing to compromise and never pushes back. He’ll bend over backwards for his woman while stepping on his own self-respect. Respect breeds respect.

When a man has no boundaries and gives seemingly endlessly, there’s no container there. Container as in an edge to experience and actually feel the other. Being with Mr. Nice Guy becomes boring.

Dating Mr. Nice Guy is stagnant. It’s like dating yourself. There’s nothing to push up against, and ultimately we don’t feel met. Being in a relationship with Mr. Nice Guy is like dancing alone with no lead.

Want to go to a movie tonight? Sure.

Oh scratch that, want to go tomorrow? Sure.

Oh my plans fell through tonight, are you available? Sure.

Would it be okay if I cancelled our plans to meet the girls tonight? Sure.

Women don’t want jerks, but we do want some flavor and some backbone. If a man is constantly agreeable, there’s nothing to add flavor to our world and we might as well be solo.

Which leads me to Pleasers. Pleasers don’t express their moods or their opinions because they’re so focused outside themselves, desperately seeking approval.

Pleasers become out of touch with what they really want and need because they’re not tapped into who they really are or what they really feel.

But here’s where the deception ultimately resides: pleasers lie to themselves.

Pleasers tend to be so scared of losing who they want, they set their own needs aside and deny what they feel in order to, well…please.

At first it’s hard to decipher, but when we’re is in a relationship with a pleaser or overly nice guy, eventually the truth behind his actions is revealed—he’s scared and he’s needy.

Needy men give to get back versus giving from a place of truth inside their hearts.

It’s one thing to compromise within a relationship and want to make your partner happy, but it’s quite another to sacrifice your own needs. Needy men have no needs, except for the woman in front of them—you!

What first appears to be adoration and romance, soon becomes suffocating. With needy men, there’s a lack of groundedness that’s palatable because needy men aren’t truly embodied. They live outside themselves and try to enmesh with the other.

Healthy women want to grow. We want to stretch. When we’re with Mr. Nice Guy or Mr. Pleaser, we feel selfish because there’s no healthy way to match their over giving. We eventually feel stagnant because there’s no one to grow along with in life. Suddenly we feel like the man and the woman in the relationships because we’re calling all of the shots all of the time.

When we’re directing every aspect of our movie together, soon the pressure shuts us down.

So what’s the one thing needy men, Mr. Nice Guys and pleasers all have in common?

They are all over givers.

Over givers are ultimately selfish. On the surface they may appear to be easy going and kind, but there’s a dark agenda often hidden from even themselves. There tends to be an empty hole deep inside that was never tended to, healed or self sourced.

While it’s one thing to compromise and prioritize the relationship, it’s quite another to over do all of that.

As much as men don’t want a drama queen or someone who can’t take care of herself, women want a fully embodied man who has done the work on himself and is able to fill those empty holes on the inside, by himself.

When a man learns to express who he really is, while tending to his own needs and having an opinion and life of his own, that’s when we’re attracted to them.

Men (like women) who are wounded early on in life tend to want to please in order to receive love. They don’t know their own self worth and instead identify their worth through the relationship.

Children who were neglected emotionally often grow up learning to manipulate the other for attention and love versus having healthy self-esteem and self love. Over giving, pleasing and playing nice for love are all examples of this manipulation.

Learning to self resource his own needs allows us to partner together as self resourced healthy adults.

Standing there with an empty bucket and hoping to fill it through the relationship with us, does not.

It’s not that we don’t want the nice guys, it’s that we want fully embodied men holding a full bucket.

 

Relephant Read:

How to exit the Friendzone.

 

 

Post adapted generously with permission from Daily Transformations 

Author: Tamara Star

Editor: Emily Bartran

Photo: Google Images for Reuse

69,761 views

About Tamara Star

Tamara Star believes happiness is not an end destination, but instead the ability to see the ordinary through eyes of wonder. Want her free tips and tricks for health, happiness and love? Click here. Receive her free 3 video series for clearing the slate for more love & happiness. Click here. She's an international best-selling author and the creator of the original 40-day Personal reboot program for women--a 6 week virtual deep dive into clearing the slate on what's blocking you. Registration is open NOW here. Tamara's global reach inspires women around the world through her programs, newsletters, and teachings. She's been featured on SiriusXM radio, Good Morning America, former Oprah producer LeGrande Green's GetBOLD radio, Dr. Brenda Wade's GoodLove Radio, Daybreak USA and News Australia. Connect with Tamara on her websiteFacebook or Twitter. Tamara's work had been translated into 6 languages and featured on The Huffington Post, MindBodyGreen, Positively Positive, Yahoo News, The News.com Australia, The Good Men Project, and Yoga Anonymous.

Comments

47 Responses to “Dear Mr. Nice Guy: Let’s Just Be Friends.”

  1. Sha says:

    Yes! I need a guy that will occasionally challenge me as well. Be it competitively, or calling me out when I am being silly or dramatic. If I don't feel that from a guy I don't have as much respect and unfortunately take advantage of that. I do not like myself when I take advantage of myself. So if a guy is "too nice" then flags go up because I am cautious my best side will not come out in that relationship.

  2. Tjay says:

    Yep, they are damn fakes and liars. Try gaining a LOT of weight after a break-up. Where are all those "really nice guys" that wanted me 75 pounds ago? GONE, thats where they are, because they are not REALLY as nice as they were acting, to get the sexy young girl.

  3. Purple Dog Farm says:

    We nice guys are highly under-rated. When women have had their fill with the jerks and self centered egotists they eventually come to us and say, "where were you all my life?" We were right there honey. You were just too caught up with your fantasy of changing the badboy. Good luck with that. I am not going to apologize for being affectionate, passionate, attentive and any other term you want to label us with. If you don't think you deserve the attention or worse can't take the kindness and caring we give that is your problem not mine. For any healthy relationship you have to give and receive. Maybe I was just lucky and found someone who can return the love that I give her.

  4. Andie says:

    Some men end up this way because they have had women who've encouraged it or told them that's what women want in a man. There are many reasons for this, but I also think this can happen vice versa.

  5. Daniel says:

    Tamara, sorry, but your take is wrongheaded. There is no such thing as being too giving. A man can be a giver, a pleaser, a “nice guy” without also being needy. We can do more than one thing at a time. We can give our love to you and also pursue our own passions elsewhere in our careers and our avocations. And if you think we must have an ulterior motive to give you that kind of love, then i feel sorry for you.

  6. Martha says:

    We all get what we deserve.

  7. Wes Paterson says:

    I think there needs to be balance though. As a young man I experienced a couple relationships where I was very respectful towards women, almost 1950’s style in the 1990’s, because that value was installed in me by my stay at home mother, and my father provided for us working 80 plus hours per week running a business. Ultimately, I received a couple heartbreaks, and I went 180 and basically didn’t give a shit about females, and guess what happened, suddenly meeting and picking up women was effortless, very shallow and meaningless as well, but that is college. It wasn’t until years later, marriage, kids, divorce, etc. that I finally found some balance, mostly through yoga, meditation, self-reflection and inquiry. Now I am with my love, and it is better than anything I ever experienced, and it is because I no longer feel a need to please, or look good, nor do I feel the need to partake in the ditch them before they hurt you mentality. Once one, man or woman learns to have a love for themselves, extending that love outward becomes natural, true, and pure. Just some thoughts from a male viewpoint.

  8. Maria grazia says:

    I’m disappointed… In an healthy relationship you have to know him well, you have to respect him as one different from you. The hard work of knowing and respecting yourself must have been done before, even if the fundamental point is that a healthy relationship invites you to grow up and become more than you were before. Love is connection, is power, is a give and take, not a silly joke. Be grateful for what a person gives to you, and learn to say No when it’s enough for you, even if it’s too much attention, connection or kindness. You speak, he listen. You learn, he learn. This is true connection. It’s not boring. Not at all.

  9. T says:

    I think this is a twisted perspective and forgive me if I sound like I’m judging but this take on nice guys sounds like it’s that of an adoescent girl. Although there may be “some” truth to it, this girl who believes this lacks maturity. What is the alternative to the nice guy other than the jerk or being at home alone crying the blues with your other simple minded girl friends that cannot appreciate a guy for simply being a good guy which does not mean he’s needy. He may be naive in not being able to see through your facade, mask, inauthenticity…”nice girl” If we all were authentic much of this bs would go away.

  10. Jackie says:

    Thank you for writing this. It really explains what is really going on. We all want good people in our lives. But giving to get is a form of covert manipulation and can be a turn off.

  11. valerie says:

    I think that sometimes this is the case, too nice is cloying. But don’t many of us girls want someone dashing and slightly dangerous? Isn’t that a little sexy? People have written books about why good girls like the bad boys. However, I agree with the comments that suggest that once we grow up from our fantasies it is best to pick someone nice (and hopefully still a dashing.)

  12. Rick says:

    I have a question. If his personality makes him unsuitable as a lover, how does he get to be your “friend”? Lovers have boundaries but friends don’t?

  13. filip says:

    I think you have clearly hit a wound of many people here. But in a very destructive and immature way.

    As many people above also write in their comments, you seem to either have missed out on many good men out there OR you have been betrayed by one of those pseudo nice guys, who actually are egomaniac and cruel in their relationship morals. meaning these people are actually the rude and hard cool guys.

    being a nice guy myself (at least counting myself to these) and being a proud one, I would be very sad if the relationship dynamics in this world would be based on being the cool guy, saying no on purpose, being difficult on purpose, being the hard to get guy we all look up to in our young years (puberty actually) – THIS if anything is dishonest and unauthentic. believe me. how many of us have been driven towards being cool, the hard to get guy or whatever to attract the woman we want. since the age of 18 it has stopped working though. and this has to do with the lack of intelligence and immaturity.

    please rethink your philosophy as it can only lead to the real inauthenticity in a relationship and you will NOT be happy with the crampy, cool, hard to get lumberjack, career driven egomaniac you seem to glorify.

  14. filip says:

    I think you have clearly hit a wound of many people here. But in a very destructive and immature way.
    As many people above also write in their comments, you seem to either have missed out on many good men out there OR you have been betrayed by one of those pseudo nice guys, who actually are egomaniac and cruel in their relationship morals. meaning these people are actually the rude and hard cool guys.

    being a nice guy myself (at least counting myself to these) and being a proud one, I would be very sad if the relationship dynamics in this world would be based on being the cool guy, saying no on purpose, being difficult on purpose, being the hard to get guy we all look up to in our young years (puberty actually) – THIS if anything is dishonest and unauthentic. believe me. how many of us have been driven towards being cool, the hard to get guy or whatever to attract the woman we want. since the age of 18 it has stopped working though. and this has to do with the lack of intelligence and immaturity.

    please rethink your philosophy as it can only lead to the real inauthenticity in a relationship and you will NOT be happy with the crampy, cool, hard to get lumberjack, career driven egomaniac you seem to glorify.

  15. AnonPaul says:

    “Over givers are ultimately selfish. On the surface they may appear to be easy going and kind, but there’s a dark agenda often hidden from even themselves. There tends to be an empty hole deep inside that was never tended to, healed or self sourced.”

    Wow! So many true things written here but at exactly the same time so over generalising, paranoid, one-sided, and devoid of any empathy. Yes, my childhood was ruined. And yes I have holes that I’ll never be able to fill. I don’t need to. I’m holey (or holy, get it, pun intended) me. But to say my giving is selfish is very saddening.

    Some of us over givers are just really lonely people who so truely appreciate (the company of) the other that we actually don’t care if our eggs are fried or boiled when asked this question. I’ll have them like you’re having them. “No, do you want your eggs fried or boiled”. Who is manipulating who here? You may say what a childish example to bring up. But that’s what it boils down to (no pun intended). Don’t try to turn my easy-goingness into some sort of indifference of abject-cowardice. And especially not into some sort of manipulation game.

    The thing is I am truely lonely. Actually really very alone and lonely. When I’m with another person I do not ‘need’ anything from this other person.

    The truth is I want to give ‘even’ more… much more…(with tears on my heart) but I actually fear the rejection of my (so called ‘over’) giving (and here’s us being called selfish).

    So after you’ve psychologized me, realize there are loads more flavours of Mr. Nice guy then you could ever imagine. I bet some will be pretty damn amazing flavours too. So don’t take yourself too seriously.

    So you’ve made it white, I’ve made it black… is the truth somewhere there inbetween? I don’t care. I just like it when I’m with you.

  16. Janice says:

    I totally agree with this article. It's not that I don't want a giving relationship because I'm a giver also. But I also have my own life and identity. When a man expects me to be his whole life, especially early on in the relationship, then I become very uncomfortable and end it. I don't expect him to be the sole reason for my happiness as I shouldn't be for him. It's all about being a happy, gratitude filled person. Once you meet that special person that reflects the same attributes then it's majic!

  17. AnonPaul says:

    "Over givers are ultimately selfish. On the surface they may appear to be easy going and kind, but there’s a dark agenda often hidden from even themselves. There tends to be an empty hole deep inside that was never tended to, healed or self sourced."
    Wow! So many true things written here but at exactly the same time so over-generalizing, paranoid, one-sided, and devoid of any empathy. Yes, my childhood was ruined. And yes I have holes that I'll never be able to fill. I don't need to. I'm holey (or holy, get it, pun intended) me. But to say my giving is selfish is very saddening.
    Some of us over givers are just really lonely people who so truely appreciate (the company of) the other (the person we truely adore) that we actually don't care if our eggs are fried or boiled when asked this question. I'll have them like you're having them. "No, do you want your eggs fried or boiled". Who is manipulating who here? You may say what a childish example to bring up. But that's what it boils down to (no pun intended). Don't try to turn this easy-goingness into some sort of abject-cowardice. And especially not into some sort of manipulation game.
    The thing is I am truely lonely. Actually really very alone and lonely. When I'm with another person I do not 'need' anything from this other person.
    The truth is I want to give 'even' more… much more…(with tears on my heart) but I actually fear the rejection of my (so called 'over') giving (and here's us being called selfish).
    So after you've psychologized this guy, realize there are loads more flavours of Mr. Nice guy then you could ever imagine. I bet some will be pretty damn amazing flavours too. So don't take yourself too seriously or you might miss out on something especially 'nice'.
    So you've made it white, I've made it black… is the truth somewhere there inbetween? I don't care. I just like it when I'm with you.

  18. Allie says:

    Spot on, Tamara! As a woman who was married to Mr. Nice Guy for 15 years, I can tell you this is insidious. Forever trying to fill his leaky bucket. Always with that passive- aggressive resentment from him because I could never “return his love” enough. I have a wonderful, loving, caring, passionate, respectful man now. One who is a fully acctualized man with a full bucket. He gives me plenty to push against and it is amazing. They do exist. They don’t have to be jerks or bad boys. Listen to your inner voice and leave the Mr Nice Guys in the friend-zone.

  19. JPM says:

    As a Guy I liked this article. And I will share this….When I find myself stuck in the "friend zone" with someone I want more from, I break it off. I am honest, and I simply tell them that I am disappointed, I want to date you, friendship is not enough, and therefore I must walk away before it gets anymore complicated. And I DO walk away.
    Sometimes that little act of self-respect and honestly makes the woman reconsider and we start over and begin dating. But sometimes you lose a good friend.

  20. Brittany says:

    I think it's meant to those that go to an extreme side of pleasing, giving, and being Mr Nice Guy. I think this is more directed towards men that are "Nice Guys" to get what they want, not because they are genuinely nice. Those that continuously sacrifice what they want and believe because being in any relationship is worth more than waiting for the RIGHT relationship for them. This isn't for the men that give everything they can to a woman that gives everything right back. It's for those that give, and give, and give, without any return and are somehow okay with it. The men that drop their hobbies, passions, and ambitions, or that their ambitions are to simply have a relationship. I wholeheartedly believe that a relationship is about giving, pleasing, and being a nice guy/girl, but anything in too extreme of a direction is unhealthy. The author is correct when she says that a lot of these behaviors stem from trauma or abuse as children. A defense mechanism that was developed to protect them.

  21. Joe says:

    “When a man has no boundaries and gives seemingly endlessly, there’s no container there.”

    It strikes me that our hearts need LESS containers and our egos need FEWER boundaries.

    “Mr. Nice Guy is too willing to compromise and never pushes back.”

    Perfect description of “Mr. Milktoast”.

    “Being with Mr. Nice Guy becomes boring.”

    Not true….being in a relationship with someone who has no opinion or motivation (Mr. Milktoast, Mr. Under-motivated, Mr. Brainless) can become boring but being in a relationship with Mr. Nice Guy is rarely boring because he’s always seeking new ways to increase the joy and open-heartedness of the relationship. He’s always concerned with your happiness and in a fight – he’s always got your back.

    “Over givers are ultimately selfish. On the surface they may appear to be easy going and kind, but there’s a dark agenda often hidden from even themselves.”

    Yes – there are people who “over give” based on an agenda of fear (or many other dark energies,) but there are also people who “over give” based on an agenda of compassion, personal growth, and love. The term “over-giving” is a judgment that one makes based on ones own sense of personal value and appropriate service. What strikes one as “over giving” may be nothing more than someone whose compassion, love and desire to do good is greater than our own.

    “When we’re with Mr. Nice Guy or Mr. Pleaser, we feel selfish because there’s no healthy way to match their over giving.”

    Any relationship that descends into a tit-for-tat accounting is unhealthy. If your partner’s unconditional giving makes you feel uncomfortable (or the need to start an excel spreadsheet) you need to communicate that but also to look into your own heart as to the reasons WHY you might feel they are giving too much or over doing it.

    “We eventually feel stagnant because there’s no one to grow along with in life.”

    How about we start recognizing that even though we’re all flawed, there are lessons that we can learn from each other. If I feel stagnant, I take personal responsibility. In fact, it’s important that we take personal responsibility for however we feel in a relationship. …and if our partner is on a different growth trajectory than us, and we need a partner who motivates our growth, then maybe this is not the right life relationship for us.

    Thank you Tamara for writing this article. Even though I disagree that this article has anything to do with “nice guys”, it has stimulated some interesting thoughts!

  22. JoeCooperSilvi says:

    Having been described as a “nice guy” I feel I have to respond to this article. I’m sorry Tamara, but this is NOT an article about “nice guys”: it’s an article about “guys who don’t care about you”, “guys who can’t communicate”, “guys who are overly needy”, “guys who are afraid and weak”.

    Your article is propounding ideas about “nice guys” with which I disagree – first that a man (or anyone for that matter) can be “too nice”. Isn’t one of the main messages of EVERY wisdom tradition to grow our own absolute and expansive love and compassion and to express this through ever expanding service to others?

    Sure – some people (both men and women) awkwardly execute “being nice” and may even be struggling with the source or motivations of their nice-ness – for some it may be motivated by fear, or flaw in their ability to express themselves or any number of other shadow places! But if their positive behavior seems motivated by shadow energies, perhaps instead of judging them or labeling them, maybe they have something to teach us – like helping us to open our own hearts to compassion…or recognizing our own shadows that we need to work on.

    The second concept I disagree with is the whole “Mr. Nice Guy” label. What you’ve described isn’t a “nice guy” but “Mr. Milktoast” OR “Mr. I’m Just Not That into You but Don’t Know How to Communicate That I Don’t Give a Rat’s Ass About This Relationship Anymore” OR the more positive “Mr. What We Actually Do Together is Way Less Important To Me Than Spending Time With You.” How does one discriminate between these? Communication. Self-reflection.

    A few other items worth thinking deeply about:

    “Bending over backwards for his woman while stepping on his own self-respect”

    Bending over backwards for someone does not necessitate stepping on ones own self-respect…personally I would rather err on the side of putting the needs of others before my own desires than not. And the MORE I am able to do put my desires second to those of others, the MORE I respect myself.

    “When a man has no boundaries and gives seemingly endlessly, there’s no container there.”

    It strikes me that our hearts need LESS containers and our egos need FEWER boundaries.

    “Mr. Nice Guy is too willing to compromise and never pushes back.”

    No – that describes “Mr. Milktoast”.

    “Being with Mr. Nice Guy becomes boring.”

    Not true….being in a relationship with someone who has no opinion or motivation (Mr. Milktoast, Mr. Under-motivated, Mr. Brainless) can become boring but being in a relationship with Mr. Nice Guy is rarely boring because he’s always seeking new ways to increase the joy and open-heartedness of the relationship. He’s always concerned with your happiness and in a fight – he’s always got your back.

    “Over givers are ultimately selfish. On the surface they may appear to be easy going and kind, but there’s a dark agenda often hidden from even themselves.”

    Yes – there are people who “over give” based on an agenda of fear (or many other dark energies,) but there are also people who “over give” based on an agenda of compassion, personal growth, and love. The term “over-giving” is a judgment that one makes based on ones own sense of personal value and appropriate service. What strikes one as “over giving” may be nothing more than someone whose compassion, love and desire to do good is greater than our own.

    “When we’re with Mr. Nice Guy or Mr. Pleaser, we feel selfish because there’s no healthy way to match their over giving.”

    Any relationship that descends into a tit-for-tat accounting is unhealthy. If your partner’s unconditional giving makes you feel uncomfortable (or the need to start an excel spreadsheet) you need to communicate that but also to look into your own heart as to the reasons WHY you might feel they are giving too much or over doing it.

    “We eventually feel stagnant because there’s no one to grow along with in life.”

    How about we start recognizing that even though we’re all flawed, there are lessons that we can learn from each other. If I feel stagnant, I take personal responsibility. In fact, it’s important that we take personal responsibility for however we feel in a relationship. …and if our partner is on a different growth trajectory than us, and we need a partner who motivates our growth, then maybe this is not the right life relationship for us.

    Thank you Tamara for writing this article. Even though I disagree that this article has anything to do with “nice guys”, it has stimulated some interesting thoughts in myself.

  23. JoeCooperSilvi says:

    Having been described as a “nice guy” I feel I have to respond to this article. I’m sorry Tamara, but this is NOT an article about “nice guys”: it’s an article about “guys who don’t care about you”, “guys who can’t communicate”, “guys who are overly needy”, “guys who are afraid and weak”.

    Your article is propounding ideas about “nice guys” with which I disagree – first that a man (or anyone for that matter) can be “too nice”. Isn’t one of the main messages of EVERY wisdom tradition to grow our own absolute and expansive love and compassion and to express this through ever expanding service to others?

    Sure – some people (both men and women) awkwardly execute “being nice” and may even be struggling with the source or motivations of their nice-ness – for some it may be motivated by fear, or flaw in their ability to express themselves or any number of other shadow places! But if their positive behavior seems motivated by shadow energies, perhaps instead of judging them or labeling them, maybe they have something to teach us – like helping us to open our own hearts to compassion…or recognizing our own shadows that we need to work on.

    The second concept I disagree with is the whole “Mr. Nice Guy” label. What you’ve described isn’t a “nice guy” but “Mr. Milktoast” OR “Mr. I’m Just Not That into You but Don’t Know How to Communicate That I Don’t Give a Rat’s Ass About This Relationship Anymore” OR the more positive “Mr. What We Actually Do Together is Way Less Important To Me Than Spending Time With You.” How does one discriminate between these? Communication. Self-reflection.

    A few other items worth thinking deeply about:

    “Bending over backwards for his woman while stepping on his own self-respect”
    Bending over backwards for someone does not necessitate stepping on ones own self-respect…personally I would rather err on the side of putting the needs of others before my own desires than not. And the MORE I am able to do put my desires second to those of others, the MORE I respect myself.

    “When a man has no boundaries and gives seemingly endlessly, there’s no container there.”
    It strikes me that our hearts need LESS containers and our egos need FEWER boundaries.

    “Mr. Nice Guy is too willing to compromise and never pushes back.”
    No – that describes “Mr. Milktoast”.

    “Being with Mr. Nice Guy becomes boring.”
    Not true….being in a relationship with someone who has no opinion or motivation (Mr. Milktoast, Mr. Under-motivated, Mr. Brainless) can become boring but being in a relationship with Mr. Nice Guy is rarely boring because he’s always seeking new ways to increase the joy and open-heartedness of the relationship. He’s always concerned with your happiness and in a fight – he’s always got your back.

    “Over givers are ultimately selfish. On the surface they may appear to be easy going and kind, but there’s a dark agenda often hidden from even themselves.”
    Yes – there are people who “over give” based on an agenda of fear (or many other dark energies,) but there are also people who “over give” based on an agenda of compassion, personal growth, and love. The term “over-giving” is a judgment that one makes based on ones own sense of personal value and appropriate service. What strikes one as “over giving” may be nothing more than someone whose compassion, love and desire to do good is greater than our own.

    “When we’re with Mr. Nice Guy or Mr. Pleaser, we feel selfish because there’s no healthy way to match their over giving.”
    Any relationship that descends into a tit-for-tat accounting is unhealthy. If your partner’s unconditional giving makes you feel uncomfortable (or the need to start an excel spreadsheet) you need to communicate that but also to look into your own heart as to the reasons WHY you might feel they are giving too much or over doing it.

    “We eventually feel stagnant because there’s no one to grow along with in life.”
    How about we start recognizing that even though we’re all flawed, there are lessons that we can learn from each other. If I feel stagnant, I take personal responsibility. In fact, it’s important that we take personal responsibility for however we feel in a relationship. …and if our partner is on a different growth trajectory than us, and we need a partner who motivates our growth, then maybe this is not the right life relationship for us.

    Thank you Tamara for writing this article. Even though I disagree that this article has anything to do with “nice guys”, it has stimulated some interesting thoughts in myself.

  24. s says:

    This just sounds like a long winded excuse for never giving back in a relationship. Maybe you’re lazy or have no soul? Relationships are just that – give and take. If you can’t hang with a ‘nice guy’ its probably because you’re a ‘shitty girlfriend’

  25. Karen says:

    I'm tossing a visit flag here. I have a son who embodies the guy who can take care of himself, meets his own needs, had his own pinions and lives his life on his terms. He is never in want of female companionship and they are all certain they can be the one that lays claim to him. Truth is, he has no intention of getting into a relationship or marriage because, in his own words, "Why would I need or want someone else to validate me? I respect myself and I can take care of myself so what the f*** do I need them for?"

    However, having said that, I married a nice guy, a pleaser, 35 years ago. We are still going strong because he gives and I take; until he needs, them I give and he takes. Our relationship is strong and were happy with it. I have friends who would trade their lives for mine, with Mr. Nice Guy/Pleaser, in a Tennessee minute.

    Macho assholes may be fun and exciting when you're young, though I never found that to be the case, personally speaking, but the day will come when you will wish to give up all the fun you've had, to have someone one to grow old with, hold hands with, who will mourn your loss when you are gone

  26. A Nice Guy says:

    well, what then you want from us the nice guy. we try to give everything, do anything to make you happy and we tried the best we could to stay away from arguments and to put you always the top priority. but then..you say this is a kind of no-adventure-no-challenge-relationship. gosh. i think it is a time for the girls out there to realize..this nice guy want to become the man, a husband that can care for you and live with you until the end of life..not just some boyfriend who you can switch and change over and over. i don’t know..it is an opinion

  27. Me says:

    This article shot me in the foot. Because it describes me, perhaps not so bad, but yes at times, its me. After my latest “lets just be friends” I cried as hard as I did when my mother died. This time it really hurt because this woman is a twin flame. Or so it felt. Maybe there’s still hope, but there’s no point going down that thought train right now. I need to tender to my own needs. I’ll be reading this again and again. If feels ironic that by giving less, I may receive more. Counter intuitive even. But its truth is a revelation to me, but not in a nice way.. Particularly given the lack of self-worth cause of it all. I assumed I do have a high self-worth, but then I see that sometimes I obviously don’t. It hurts, but that’s living. Thank you.

  28. Coley says:

    My ah-ha moment while reading this article. I do the same thing “nice guys” do, in my own way. I do not want a “nice guy” but I engage in the same ways. So glad I read this and recognized my own pleaser kind of behavior. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
    Coley

  29. albundy says:

    #nomaam

  30. Cesare says:

    Ha ha, brilliant point!!

  31. Joe says:

    Thanks for writing this Karen 🙂

  32. john says:

    why should nice guys all of the sudden give you chance when your fat if you didnt give them a chance when you were skinny? the men were excersising their rights and owed nothing to you

  33. Damien says:

    I agree with the premise that the nice guys need to do some work to show up as embodied and integrated sexual beings.

    You amazing women can help that process rather than break hearts.
    Here is my repose to the whole nice guy thing.
    http://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/04/some-help-for-the-nice-guys-please/

  34. Patrick says:

    “Love is the ability and willingness to allow those that you care for to be what they choose for themselves, without any insistence that they satisfy you.” ~ Wayne Dryer

  35. Guest says:

    I can relate to what your'e saying here, but you seem to be mixing and possibly conflating issues. You seem to be talking about several different personality traits, and I'm always suspicious of one woman writing about what ALL women want or need. Nevertheless, I can relate to what you're saying–and I wonder why women get so criticized for wanting men that provide a challenge..being too compliant just just not sexy.

  36. Jackie says:

    Totally agree. Most of these nice guys are not genuine. Alot are trying to get somewhere. Which is really just another form of manipulation.

  37. Jackie says:

    You missed my point. It's not about being cool. It's about being genuine. People can tell if its genuine kindness or an act. Alot of nice guys are doing it as an act. If you are not one of them then you have nothing to worry about.

  38. Dan Munro says:

    This is so accurate! Guys need to read this asap. I've also written a post about another approach women can take to dealing with their Nice Guy, to help him break out of it: http://www.theinspirationallifestyle.com/nice-guy

  39. Mike says:

    You should really read “No More Me Nice Guy” by Dr. Robert Glover. If this article hit home for you , that book will blow you away. It’s a classic that’s required reading at the personal development company I work for.

  40. Bill says:

    Dear women who don't want nice guys, because reasons. As a reformed nice guy, I have to kindly ask you to shove this in whatever orifice of your choosing. I was told my whole life I had to be nice, kind, respectful, always do nice things, always think of her first. I was told that if I am "just myself" and am there for her, then one day, one special day, she will see me for who I really am, and it will be true love.

    So while you are having some mixed feelings about choosing to stay with a guy who respects you and is attempting to find out how he could buy the moon for you, or the guy who's going to pump and dump you, I have already made my choice, and I no longer choose you. Enjoy your cats.

  41. Marc says:

    Goodbye Mr. Nice Guy; hello Mr. Fifty Shades of Grey!

  42. Karan says:

    “at first he might seem wonderful, but below the surface, on some level, he’s a liar—ultimately because he’s lying to himself.”

    And what are you Tamara? The Virgin Mary?
    All people are biased. Does that mean some one less biased isn’t worthier than the biased? THAT ‘degree’ of difference is what separates the “nice guys” from the ones around whom you “blossom sexually”.

  43. leonard says:

    Great post,filip! If wpman are so intent upon taking advantage of kindnes and caring, then they really deserve the "consequences" they get. The, they are so upset.

  44. Darrell M says:

    So if you feel like you’re a nice guy, play the game or be alone.

  45. Hope you will write about the Mr. Indifferent too , that guy who u fall headover heals but dnt give a damn about ur feelings..even u initiate the breakup

  46. Greg says:

    A lot of women pay lip service to the idea that they want men who are submissive or obedient to them, or that 'good' guys deserve to end up with someone better than them. Women are more attracted to arrogant, selfish men who place very little value on them relative to other women and see them as disposable and replaceable. Women like men who will do whatever it takes to get what they want and don't care who gets hurt in the process. For a woman to admit that would destroy her reputation, however. Men are attracted to fit, good-looking women, regardless of what they're like. Everyone knows that. It's about power. Women want to control and exploit men, and men want to control and exploit women. That's what 'love' is.

  47. James says:

    I think all this "nice guys stuff" is share immaturity. If someone is really committed to a long and respected relationship, not that infatuation feelings that end relationships in months, there is nothing like he or she is too nice. My question is would you like the bad guy to father your children?