Waylon Lewis: 1st interview w John Friend, alleged Rock Star Yogi, re: New York Times Magazine article.

Via on Jul 31, 2010

Recently, John Friend, founder of Anusara Yoga, was featured (and grilled, a bit) in The Sunday New York Times Magazine.

This is his first interview following what is probably the most popular, prominent article re yoga in recent history.

“We as a yoga community need to unite.” ~ John Friend.

Last night, following our breaking the story on John Friend’s response to the popular, controversial “biggest article on yoga in history” (er, yes, I’m quoting myself)—the Sunday New York Times Magazine feature article on John and his Anusara yoga community—John and I agreed to discuss in depth not only his thoughts on the article, but his thoughts on the future of yoga, the intersection of spirituality and Capitalism, and allegations of acting like a “rock star yogi.”

We went back and forth from 7:30 until just about midnight. Though I got tired, he showed no signs of flagging, despite simultaneously catching up with staff and enjoying dinner, and despite having just got off the long flight from Italy.

May the conversation below be of some benefit. ~ ed.

~

The below photo is previously unpublished, and comes via John directly.

Exclusive Photo: John Friend in meditation posture in a studio in Kyoto, Japan. “The Japanese students have some of the highest level of studentship (adhikara) in the world.” Used by permission.

~

Waylon Lewis of Walk the Talk Show interviews John Friend, founder of Anusara Yoga, re: controversial, popular NY Times feature article.

Waylon Lewis, for elephantjournal.com:

When we first met, years ago, we toured the Boulder Shambhala Center [and Om Time] and talked about Chögyam Trungpa, a Buddhist teacher who coined the term “spiritual materialism.”

I’ve heard that this subject is on your mind a great deal these days—and the occasionally snarky, mostly complementary feature article in this Sunday’s New York Times about you and dwells a fair amount on the burgeoning business empire and success story that is Anusara Yoga.

When is it unhealthy for money and our meditation or yoga or spiritual path to intersect? And when is it healthy? Sustainability, paying the bills, celebrating life is something we all want to do, after all.

What’s the defining difference, in your extensive experience, between Spiritual Materialism and, as Dr. Deepak Chopra told me in an interview, “making money selling peace instead of aggression”?

John Friend:

Hi Waylon. For me money is Shakti.

It is, essentially, power. You can use it to enhance life or to harm life. Money can be exchanged for things that bring happiness and freedom from suffering—food, medicine, housing, warm clothing. And it can be used to buy weapons and things that are harmful to life and binding to consciousness.

Because it is necessary to sustain life as we know it, and because it can be used as a means to happiness, pleasure, and power over others, it is in great demand! However, money is not non-spiritual or bad in of itself. It is a power, so it depends on the intention with which it is used. Therefore, in society I would like to see the most virtuous and conscious people have plenty of money, so that the greater good of the society would be best served.

Many people recognize the tremendous pull and allure of making a lot of money, since it is considered a means to fulfilling some of our most fundamental desires, including security. We all know instances of when the desire for money has corrupted someone’s ethical integrity, including spiritual teachers.

The intersection between money and any path, whether it is spiritual or material, is only unhealthy when it draws the mind and heart away from the highest intention of spiritual freedom. Does it help you to remember and move toward the interconnected Spirit, or does it draw you into only focusing on gratifying your individualist desires?

Waylon Lewis:

Love that. Personally speaking, I’ve found it to be a tough but worthwhile path, giving up gain or greed in favor of liking who I am, and having a clean, happy conscience. My mom was and is poor, but she’s happy.

I have many friends who spend their lives devoted to making money by pushing unhealthy products or ideas, then give a little back at some point, assuaging their uneasy conscience. I do not respect such a life path, even if it leads to fame and money. I respect those who, like you or Yvon Chouinard or my mother, a teacher, make money doing good.

Right Livelihood is a brutal path, sometimes.

"John Friend, headstand, 10 years old. 1969."
“John Friend, handstand, 50 years old. 2010.”

Waylon Lewis:

Reading the article, I thought it funny that your salary, quoted at less than $100,000, was considered a bit outlandish, as was the $150 fee for a three-day Anusara yoga course. Meanwhile, the most popular article on the Times right now (yours was top #3 when I looked a few days ago) is raising the notion of paying kindergarten teachers $350,000 a year—an idea I’d happily support.

Why is it that, as you say in your response to the article, there’s an

“irony that today when a business is strictly money-making, commercialization is applauded and the corporate mogul is praised for his acumen. Yet when a business is also part of a spiritual endeavor, the same level of success can be seen as suspect.”

Reading the Times article, which I liked overall, there’s some quality in the author’s attitude that in the Buddhist community we’d call “poverty mentality”—that she almost wanted you to apologize for being relaxed, happy, celebrating the positive side of life and yoga. That you shouldn’t be touring [so much]. That you should be modest.

Is it unyogic to be anything but ascetic? To want to celebrate life?

John Friend:

There is a common idea that spirituality should be connected with lack of material things: the less you have, then you can be more spiritual. Even the fifth yama in classical yoga, aparigraha, is often translated as the non-accumulation of material things.

However, I think it is not about possession. It is about mind quality to the object of the possession. If you are clinging with your mind to something you do not possess, then you are bound and not free. Aparigraha is then a non-grasping to possessions. Living simply without excess. I think that one can celebrate and explore life in all of its “magickal” [sic] mysteries without clinging, without hoarding or being greedy.

As a financial analyst in the mid-80′s my salary was not much different than what I make today, 23 years later. When I left that job to teach yoga full-time I had three years of loss in a row on my tax returns. At one juncture I moved back in with my parents to save money, but it was fine. Although I struggled financially at times teaching yoga I can say that I have always felt blessed.

One way that I have remained relaxed and happy is to always live within my means, even when I didn’t make much from teaching. So, even today I have no debt, and that helps keep the mind freer.

Because I feel financially secure and abundant I don’t feel pulled to over-charge or take more than I need. I charge less than many teachers even other Anusara yoga teachers! And I am not the highest paid employee in Anusara! It is all of a mind state. Everything is relative in this world.

Waylon Lewis

That question was too easy for you, most likely. So here’s a tough one.

I was just at Farmers’ Market, and an Ashtanga yoga friend had read the Times article about you, and while she likes you personally she agreed with the article’s assertion that Anusara teachers did proselytize (not that anything’s wrong with that), and that Anusara could be “clique-y.”

And she said that, in her experience, you were a rock star. Not in a bad way, but that everyone loved you and there were private parties with all the cool beautiful people and that you paid more attention to beautiful people. I know, however, that you’re awful proud of your community.

Do you think the Anusara yoga kula has room for improvement?

Have you ever acted in ways that you regret, in terms of the “rock star yoga teacher” allegation?

“I’m no rock star yogi.”

John Friend:

What is a Rock Star yogi? Yes, I am an “alleged” rock star in yoga.

I suppose that when the classes get full, then it the minds of the public you become some sort of a star. The connotation that allegations are made against me as being one who only parties with a bunch of beautiful people is something that I do not connect to. Every student is important to me, so I do my best to be accessible and open to helping them in any way I can. I endeavor to connect with every student, no matter the size of the venue.

Our community is tightly-knit and there is a real enjoyment sharing in the yoga practice together. I just taught in Denmark, Germany, France, England, and Italy and in every culture there is a desire for connection of like hearts. So, the kula is tight. The people that are closest to me are those that I can trust the fullest. At the same time, Anusara has no barrier to entry. I am constantly making mistakes in relationships so I am constantly learning and getting better. I am often too open and looking for the good in those who are looking out for themselves. It is by going through tests in relationships we find our dearest friends, those that we spend the most time with. So, Anusara is improving every day through amazing relationships. And no matter the level of a particular relationship we are often in delight.

Waylon Lewis

Fourth question: The article, overall, is really positive about you and Ansuara. I was particularly struck by the author describing you as embodying a combination of “bravado and vulnerability,” which seems to fit with Anusara’s mission, to “celebrate the heart.” There’s no shame about joy or exuberance in your community, which is a relief having grown up in a Buddhist community that told me to shut up and be smaller and not celebrate myself (I was a wild, crazy child). I’m particularly interested in your leading role, at this point, in shaping the future of yoga in America. In my opinion, and in interviews with Richard Freeman, Baron Baptiste, Seane Corn, Tias Little, Elena Brower, others—I’ve expressed a concern that yoga is becoming a lifestyle, an exercise, and little more.

As the article says:

“‘He was a man with a mission.’ The mission then was to reclaim yoga from the many U.S .teachers who were so consumed with the physical practice — it was all about the workout — that they sweated out any trace of spirituality.”

and as you say in your response to the Times, featured on elephant:

“At the same time, the truth is that some styles are physically-oriented, while others are more spiritually-oriented. Some styles are more sophisticated in terms of methodology while other styles are very simplistic. That is the context of the analogy that I spoke of in the article when I said that students can choose “fast food” vs. “refined dining” when choosing a style. (And I do eat fast food on a special  occasion!) Of course, I think Anusara yoga is more effective than other styles of yoga—that is why I practice it! Yet, all styles have something positive to offer. Lastly, may we wish all yoga styles blessings of well-being and success. Any increase in yoga is good for the whole planet. All yogis need to unite as a global yoga community. If the yoga schools can not get along in harmony, then how can we expect world peace?!”

I love that. Nothing’s wrong with exercise without spirituality—the joy of movement and heat is simple, fun, like enjoying fast food on occasion. But yoga offers something more—something like meditation, a tool through movement and breath and alignment to come back to the present moment, to open up and become ourselves, more genuine. Is this is the Grace you talk about? Is yoga without such Grace still yoga? Are you concerned about the future of yoga? If so, what are you, as perhaps the most popular teacher on the planet, doing about it?

John Friend:

From my perspective I see a lot of people wanting to go deeper into their hearts. I meet people every day around the world who love to feel the connection of Spirit within themselves and their relationships. People can align themselves energetically through yoga and revelations certainly occur. Grace is what I think of as the revelatory of power of Spirit. When there are balanced alignments, the curtains open. Align with the Divine in thought, words, and actions and Grace flows in. It is an alignment of body, mind, and soul that opens the curtains and lets the Light pour in.

I am witnessing this happening on a regular basis through the yoga practice. More and more people are seeking the energetic depths of yoga and moving away from the superficial aspects. So, I’m hopeful for the future of hatha yoga around the world…I see increasing numbers of people seeking inner light. My dharma is to inspirationally remind students of the highest purposes of the yoga practice in every class. When I remember the highest first, then I’m better able to serve the students in the delightful opening of the yoga practice.

Waylon Lewis:

To go with the Margaret Mead quote about small communities being the only folks to ever change the world, how can kula or yoga community—not just Anusara’s, but all yoga studios, students, teachers and communities working together, in union, help to save the planet environmentally, politically, and help to create a more enlightened society in this lifetime?

~

I love that you said, in your response to the Times feature:“I have absolutely no problem with others publicizing pieces of information or stated opinions that are not positive about me, if they are true. I take full responsibility for my actions and words, and I am open to having my faults pointed out to me. I don’t claim that I am faultless or that “everything is good” in my organization.”

In my experience, transparency or a willingness to listen to constructive criticism is key, spiritually and business-wise, to true success. I learned that lesson, strangely enough, from reading the “Last Train to Memphis” two volume bio, about the Rise and Fall of Elvis Presley. The dividing line for Elvis between happy success and miserable success was when his momma died: he no longer accepted criticism from anyone…and surrounded himself with yes men. And oh yeah, I learned from the examples of Allen Ginsberg and Trungpa Rinpoche, growing up. Both of them were controversial—and wide open about everything, which at least while they were alive had the effect of self-liberating any charges or criticisms from the outside.

I think you’re a helpful contemporary example of this, for us—how to handle criticism. You were just featured in the biggest paper in the world, in their special magazine, on their biggest day, in the longest/most prominent feature article about yoga ever—and you took it, good and bad, in stride.

So on behalf of elephant readers, and yoga practitioners, and meditators, and those who work to protect our planet in our daily lives through joyful mindfulness, I want to say thank you for your time. I know you’re just off a plane and have been working most of this night. Thanks for all your joyful exertion (symbolized by the tiger, in Buddhism).

John Friend:

Wow, your words are wonderful, Waylon. Thank you for dialoguing with me.

You just demonstrated how we can unite to literally save the planet from imbalance. You are open to other’s voices, and this is what makes lasting connection and community. Being receptive and open to life is the first principle of Anusara yoga. You cannot align with something if you can not sense where it is. By being sensitive and open to know Shri (the divine Beauty of Life) in an endless variety of expressions, you can tune into Grace in any situation. Firstly, Waylon, you are open to look for goodness in others and that brings a sharing of hearts, a connection of Spirit. So, through opening your heart to others, like you do, we shift every relationship we are in for the positive. When consciousness opens through body, mind, and soul then all of our actions become more life-enhancing. This is the way to make a lasting positive shift in society around the world: through one relationship at a time.

Thank you for giving me this opportunity to share a wonderful discussion about important topics in our society all sparked from the New York Times article.

Blessings.

John Friend at his puja, or shrine, at home.

Bonus:

About elephant journal

elephant journal is dedicated to "bringing together those working (and playing) to create enlightened society." We're about anything that helps us to live a good life that's also good for others, and our planet. >>> Founded as a print magazine in 2002, we went national in 2005 and then (because mainstream magazine distribution is wildly inefficient from an eco-responsible point of view) transitioned online in 2009. >>> elephant's been named to 30 top new media lists, and was voted #1 in the US on twitter's Shorty Awards for #green content...two years running. >>> Get involved: > Subscribe to our free Best of the Week e-newsletter. > Follow us on Twitter Fan us on Facebook. > Write: send article or query. > Advertise. > Pay for what you read, help indie journalism survive and thrive. Questions? info elephantjournal com

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41 Responses to “Waylon Lewis: 1st interview w John Friend, alleged Rock Star Yogi, re: New York Times Magazine article.”

  1. Heather says:

    I remember meeting John when he taught in a studio in Atlanta in 2001. There was something so powerful about his happiness and joy that I just simply wanted to be in his presence, and I remember being so proud when asked to cook dinner for he and his staff by my guru. There was nothing about him that said Rock Star, but there was honestly something about me that treated him that way. In the many times I have been in his presence since, he has never changed. He is a dynamic but gracious presence, and I suppose that some will see that as his gift, and others as his curse.

    • In Buddhism, the Sadhana of Mahamudra particularly, it reminds us that there is no external guru: that when we recognize wisdom, compassion or enlightenment, even, in another, to reflect back and see that it is our wisdom, compassion, enlightenment recognizing itself.

      That's what's great about John: his Grace is not at the expense of others, but makes others feel it, too.

  2. Just finished reading the Times article last night and was thrilled to see such an immediate follow-up discussion. By elephant, no less! The NYT piece left me questioning Friend’s authenticity. Your open conversation with him brought him back to earth for me. You rock, Waylon!

    • I think, from what I understand of the author's pov, that she appreciate John and his success. I think her doubts may have been about the "scene" that naturally arises around charismatic leaders everywhere, in every context. I did find it a little silly to question his income—for a successful business that effects thousands upon thousands of people, making around $100,000 is totally cool. Ten times that would be cool with me.

      It's the !@#$%^&*()s on Wall Street, as far as I can tell, who don't create anything but feed off millions of hard-working American's investments that deserve to be making $30,000 a year. Not the teachers in this world.

  3. Great interview. Definately getting to the heart of the matter. Rock star yogi or not, John Friend is the genuine article, personal, caring and wanting to make a positive impact on people's lives.

  4. Waylon this is an important follow up interview. What frustrates me most about the NY Times article was that John's depth of teaching was not understood and therefore not communicated. The volume of people John touches today through Yoga in opening bodies hearts and minds is where we need to focus. I have spent the better part of 17 years studying with John Friend and it just continues to open and expand me. Thanks again for this interview.

    • I think questioning is always good. There was a similar critical article back in the day re my parent's Buddhist teacher. Outside perspectives keep us honest, force us to question ourselves. I think we should, like John, welcome such questioning, as long as it's respectful and well-intentioned. Even if they call us a little doughy.

  5. via http://www.facebook.com/elephantjournal

    Julia M. Wieck, Donna Wolff Freeman, Brooks Hall and 41 others like this.
    #

    *
    Nancy Alder Rock on Waylon! Way to go!!

    *
    Good work, Waylon. –Bob W.

    *
    Anna Fidz This is the interview that should have been published in the NY Times..

    *
    Jennifer Kass i read the times article after seeing your interview and thought, wow, go waylon!

  6. Excellent interview!
    I met John in Costa Rica and he is one of the warmest yogi “RockStars” I have ever met! I am a yoga therapist and his teachers bar none are the best teachers of any teacher trainings out there.
    John.. You Rock.

  7. John Cargile says:

    Great reporting, Waylon. Thanks to John Friend for the response in Elephant. I liked the dialogue and appreciate hearing the off the cuff responses on a story that is buzzing through the yoga community. How many people in the public eye would have responded with canned answers? Friend really showed what he was all about.

    I especially like the comments about “finding our dearest friends.”

    Very nice, Elephant.

  8. [...] Exclusive Interview With John Friend: elephant journal ~ Waylon Lewis shares an email exchange between him and John Friend just days after “what is probably the most popular, prominent article re: yoga in recent history.” It is honest and full of integrity. [...]

  9. [...] (via her blog) and Elena Brower (via YogaDork) and, finally, John Friend himself (via his blog and Elephant Journal). The unfolding story continues to make fascinating reading, and, as Friend notes, it’s all [...]

  10. Amanda says:

    I met John back in 2007 at a workshop in SF. A hurricane had just blown through his part of Texas. When he walked onto the stage, he took a big sigh and said, "I'm not sure if I still have a house or not, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm here with you, in this sacred place right now for a weekend of opening to Grace." It wasn't contrived humility. It was pure honesty and vulnerability. He was indeed present and teaching with a full and open heart all weekend, as were his assistants, despite the fact he and his neighbors may have suffered great losses. Was there lots of merchandise and branding? Yes. Was the place packed with wide-eyed devotees? Yes. I am a yoga teacher but I am not an Anusara teacher. Currently, I have no interest in becoming an Anusara teacher or being a member of the "inner Kula". But I do go to Anusara classes often and 90% of the time, I leave feeling really damn good. There is no doubt about it that there are elements of the methodology that are tremendously effective. Most Anusara yoga teachers I've met or learned from are bright and beautiful human beings. There's a great adage: take what works for you and leave the rest. In my humble opinion, this obsession with how much money senior yoga teachers make and how much time they invest in marketing/branding is rather mis-guided. If we want to do something about capitalism run amok and the ethical misconducts therein, wouldn't the oil, mega-bank, factory farming, or insurance industry CEOs be more appropriate targets of our collective action? Really.

  11. Katrina Knudsen says:

    Pranams of gratitude to Waylon and Elephant Journal. Thank you for providing a medium for open, honest conversation… on behalf of Anusara, John Friend, and me personally!

  12. chad says:

    What means this "studentship"?

  13. chad says:

    I guess John feels that the Japanese students are the most advanced–so strong, so flexible. Here's one partial on-line definition of adhikara: Spiritual Qualification and Ownership: Adhikara
    There is an important Sanskrit term that will help us better understand Hinduism, or any other religion. It is adhikara, which literally means "authority and ownership." A person in an advanced chemistry class, for example, who has taken previous chemistry courses has the adhikara to be in the advanced class. That person is qualified to be in the advanced class.

  14. As a practicing yogini for close to 25 years, and having found John's wisdom and heart back in 1999, I can only add the following: Yoga is a direct experience. We can talk about it all day, but that will never change our knowing. I invite all those worried about the capitalistic aspects of Anusara to take a class with a certified or inspired teacher, and let the transformation speak for itself!

  15. Tanya says:

    One of the heart teachings of Anusara is that everything is Shakti manifesting itself into existence for the pure joy of experiencing itself. In this light anything that existes is pure God energy, including anything we call a “business” or “money”. Wealth doesnt come from “good vibes”, it is a pure fact of existence, and it is part of our joy of being alive that we can discuss its relevance to eternity, and have oppinions about it, just for the sake of being able to do so.

    I am thankful for Johns teachings because for my heart they hold absolute truth. Again Anusara teaches that Shakti proliferates and differentiates in abundance, so Anusara can never speak absolute truth to everyone, only to those it resonates with. Thankfully there seem to be a lot of us and we dont care about anyones oppinions of Anusara because they really dont matter in the end. We do and will always love what Anusara teaches us and we will accept that not everyone will feel the same.

    As far as the beautiful people that surround John – have you ever spent time with a large bunch of dedicated yogis: we ARE beautiful: yoga makes people glow and radiate with health and love. Johns not choosing them, he is just surrounded by people that are that way.
    And I am incredibly thankful to his touring schedule. If he didnt travel extensively I, and many other appreciatees who do not live in America, would not have access to his teachings.

  16. ksimonik says:

    I am extremely inspired this morning by the interview John. You teach all of us to be authentic and comfortable in our own skin. I appreciate your honesty and candidness about, – well, your life! Thank you for sharing this most intimate subject and making it clear what your intentions are. I am honored to be your student. Kathy Simonik

  17. BJ Galvan Bj Galvan says:

    Exemplary reflection of John Walking his Talk.. Highest first always. Thank you EJ for Walking yours!
    We are all so Blissed!

  18. [...] PS. John Friend did a longer follow-up discussion about the issues raised by the Times article published by the Elephant Journal. [...]

  19. Appreciate your efforts.You are doing a great job.
    Yoga has become extremely popular in the last decade, but few yoga teachers are really masters of the art of yoga. Yoga is more than exercise or stretches or postures on a mat. It is a spiritual combination of the body, mind, soul, intellect and breath.

  20. [...] the publication of the New York Times article on John Friend, John’s blog in response, and the Elephant Journal interview.  The essence of the article and the reactions, to me, seem to be about the intersection of our [...]

  21. [...] yoga lately.  It’s All Yoga Baby addressed the NYT coverage beautifully and, of course, John Friend’s response to the article about him. Yoga is a hot pop culture item right now with Eat Pray Love coming out [...]

  22. Dan says:

    John’s been reading “The Millionaire Mind”. Money= an energetic exchange. Nothing new or authentic here, just an attachment to externalities, and excessive seeking. It is a delusion that they bring contentment. The excuse of “everyone else does it” to justify the age old pursuit and hoarding objects with (fill in the blank) devotees, money, power or seeking adoration, to compensate for a lack of internal contentment, is sophmoric, and the same excuse that CEOs use to pay themselves excessively.

    Let’s challenge all these new age gurus to leave their devotees behind! I bet they can’t last a New York minute without the attention, just lime Paris Hilton or Lindsay Lohan!

  23. [...] goes so far as to address what she calls the the “irksome” trend of Anusara yoga and yoga rockstar John [...]

  24. [...] Yoga an Art, a Science, or a Religion? On John Friend’s website, you will find the following sentence describing the Anusara Yoga Teacher Traning [...]

  25. [...] Ramesh Bjonnes On John Friend’s website, you will find the following sentence describing the Anusara Yoga Teacher Traning [...]

  26. Thanks for the material. I found it very helpful and I am really looking forward to reading your future posts. Great website.

  27. [...] John Friend‘s Anusara Yoga has been quickly building community since its 1997 inception. Now at over 250 certified teachers and 750 licensed Anusara-inspired teachers, Anusara is a major force in the spread of yoga through America. The spreading of this young style is a testament to its emphasis on community and the effectiveness of John Friend‘s blend of alignment principles and tantric philosophy. [...]

  28. [...] a rather up/down coverage in the New York Times Sunday Magazine—I was honored to be given the exclusive first interview and reaction from John Friend after that huge and not entirely fun publicity—several senior [...]

  29. Roman Blinds says:

    Great Choice of hobbies doing this great stuff, Will fit you well,

  30. Charlotte says:

    Thanks for such a balanced response to the NYT article and its subsequent conversations. All humans embody truly luminous qualities, and psychological blind spots that we have yet to understand. JF is no more or less than human, just like the rest of us, and he's embarked on a positive mission, like a whole lot of seekers and teachers. I appreciate that you have chosen the thoughtful route of presenting gray areas here, rather than taking the easy black or white route.

  31. Thanks for the in-depth comment, Duff. Particularly coming from you, it's an honor.

    While all Kings and Queens at the top of the Capitalistic Hill may think they deserve to be up there, I think Mr. Friend's point was simply that those who are seeking to give back, to be of benefit along the way, not just in the form of belated altruism via their blood money, ought to succeed in an enlightened society. Mr. and Mrs. Goldman Sachs or Wall St. may believe themselves to be like gods, but if any they are akin to Icarus. That's a high-falutent way of saying their happiness is at the expense of others.

    I have no problem with John, or anyone, traveling a ton (offsets might be nice?). That's global community.

    I generally, like you, can't stand all the positivity. But in my experience John is frank, not always happy-happy—his positive pov is grounded, not airy-fairy.

  32. Susanne says:

    Wonderful reply and post. I fully agree

  33. Chela says:

    Luv U Ray!

  34. Elle Potter says:

    Spot on, my friend! Amen.

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