Flu Shot: Yes or No?

Via on Jan 16, 2013
"Medication time"
“Medication time”

(Leave your answer in the comments section for this unofficial elephant survey).

For me, this is easy.

It’s not “no,” it’s  heeeeeel, no.

Take that needle away from me, Miss Nurse. I’ll just have some water, hold the water.

There’s plenty of alarming (alarmist?) mainstream news about the flu epidemic.

Apparently, we’re all gonna die, and flu shots are the only thing between us and certain death. Save your country, only 15 to 30 bucks. Well, I’m not so sure, and I’m in good company on this.

In a recent piece called, revealingly, “The Shocking Lack of Evidence Supporting Flu Vaccines,” writer Sayer Ji posits:

“As it presently stands, it is not sound medical science, but primarily economic and political motivation which generates the immense pressure behind mass participation in the annual ritual of flu vaccination.”

If you’re looking for a reason to run and get your shot, it’s not there.

If CNN is right, and I trust them like a used car salesman with schmutz on his chin, a flu shot gives you just over 60 percent chance of not getting the flu. Given those odds, count me out.

So what would a boddhisattva do? Take on the little suffering, that others might be spared suffering. Unless he thought the needle was filled with bullshit.

There are shady goings on, conjectures of deaths attributed to the flu shot, some of them kind of heartbreaking.

My chiropractor, Dr Michael, shot me this:

The vaccine generally works better “in young, healthy people than it does in older persons,” Schaffner told CNN Newsroom.

Uhh, that’s actually “youth and health” working you idiot, not the vaccine.

Elephant Media

I don’t think he’s gonna get one.

Advocates of the shot are getting creepy, now asking that it be made mandatory.

(Well, mandatory for health care workers, but it seems more alarming to leave that little detail out. Can all-out mandatory be far behind?)

That hyperlink above is to an NPR piece on this group—not fringe lunatic, but scarier.

The National Business Group on Health (NBGH), creepier than your old aunt Agnes, the one with the hair growing out of that mole on her cheek, is basically a public relations firm for big pharma, dressed in a cute skirt.

From the NPR piece:

“The NBGH is a nonprofit representing more than 300 large employers, including 68 of the Fortune 100. Its statement urged hospitals to ‘require annual flu vaccination of all employees as a condition of employment unless employees can demonstrate medical contraindications (with physician documentation) or religious objections.’”

For me, when I’m being strapped to a gurney screaming—and needled away “for my own good”—well, it just stops being fun.

That isn’t whats happening here, not yet, but what do you think? Is it okay to mandate a shot that has such poor numbers?  Forgetting that, tell me this:

Have you had your flu shot? Why?

Like elephant health & wellness on facebook.

Ed: Lynn Hasselberger

About Karl Saliter

Karl is a circus artist sculptor yoga teacher writer miscreant gypsy, living in Mexico. He often feels as if he was born under a silver whale of a frisbee moon in the back of a red cartoon pickup truck, careening down route 66 at speed, that he somehow took the wheel, stuck his baby elbow out the rolled-down window, and decided to roll with it, and that though the truck had awesome chrome mirrors, he never looked back. He hopes you sometimes feel the same.

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46 Responses to “Flu Shot: Yes or No?”

  1. SnowLeopard says:

    I get a flu shot yearly. I have a rare heart disease and am 78 years young.

    • karlsaliter says:

      Snow Leopard, I like your name. First of all, thanks for being 78 and cruising around on elephant! I hope to be doing the same at 78. Why did you choose to get it?

    • Erwin Alber says:

      "There is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza. The producers of these vaccines know that they are worthless, but they go on selling them, anyway."

      Dr. J. Anthony Morris
      Former Chief Vaccine Control Officer at the FDA

      Also, according to Dr Russell Blaylock MD, people who have the flu shot five years in a row have a tenfold-increased risk of getting Alzheimer's.

      As Aldous Huxley once remarked: "Medical science has made such tremendous progress that there is hardly a healthy human left.",

  2. Guest says:

    My doctor annually advises me to not get a flu shot even though I fit the criteria of those who most need one, per the mainstream medical industry (weakened immune system; existing illnesses; elderly). Plus my doc is very fond of pharmaceuticals so he is also mainstream medical. This, to me, adds weight to his opposition to the flu shots. I've had the flu about 5 times in 6 decades. Never had a flu shot.

  3. Timmy_Robins says:

    Vaccines have been getting a bad rap lately, I guess this all comes from the doctor that claimed that vaccines could cause autism and probably also from the alternative medicine movement. The problem is that these disinformation "campaigns" are not based on facts and they only hurt public health.

    The autism-vaccine study has been proved to be an elaborate fraud and Dr Wakefield has been striped of his medical license.
    It is important to mention that the effectiveness of a vaccine depends on the individuals immune system and not on the vaccine in itself, having said that the effectiveness of most vaccines is high (polio 99% after 3 doses).
    Millions of lives have been saved and many diseases have been erradicated since vaccines became widely used.

    If the effectivity of something must be questioned then it is that of alternative "medicine".

    • karlsaliter says:

      Timmy, I wanted to be sure you saw this, and had a chance to reply. Since Timmy_Robins has laid claim to factual as opposed to superstitious thinking, let's first look, together, at what makes a fact a fact.

      Karl Saliter linked this article which says there were 79 cases of (by government admission) vaccine induced narcolepsy in Finland and about 200 in Sweden.

      Here it is again: http://www.examiner.com/article/finland-and-swede….

      Yet Timmy_Robins says confidently that there were 17 in Finland and 12 in Sweden–and that The Examiner is not credible.

      This is easy to establish. Mr. Robins, what is your reference for the numbers you cite? Let's get to the bottom of at least that question, so we can establish what makes a fact a fact. We all agree that we like facts.

      • Timmy_Robins says:

        Hi Karl , of course let's do it, like you said this is not about wanting to be right it is about the facts.
        Let me examine the information and I will reply to you shortly.

      • Timmy_Robins says:

        Part 1

        The examiner is not a reliable source of information because it is not a news site, it is a multiuser blogger site that presents itself as a news site , it pays its writers based on page views and writers are not necessarily professionals, journalists. This means that more often than not the material tends to be biased and sensationalistic. In fact if you read carefully the story you linked to you will notice that at the bottom of the story there is a link to the original story meaning the author didn't do any research, she probably just picked the information relevant to her. At the very bottom there is a "suggested by the author" list of stories , you should check it out, I think it says a lot about her biases and lack of objectivity.

        The numbers I cited come from these government agencies:
        National Institute For Health And Welfare
        So far, the THL register for adverse events following immunization (AEFI) has received reports of six cases where narcolepsy has followed vaccination. The number is consistent with the annual incidence of narcolepsy under normal circumstances. However, in addition to the above, AEFI reports have not yet been submitted for a further nine possible cases. The symptoms of all the children with narcolepsy started at the end of 2009 and beginning of 2010.
        http://www.thl.fi/en_US/web/en/pressrelease?id=22

        Swedish Medical Products Agency
        "In total, there are 12 cases of narcolepsy reported to the MPA from healthcare professionals in Sweden with a suspected relationship to vaccination with Pandemrix. In addition to the cases reported in Sweden and Finland there are a few further cases reported in France, Germany and Norway. An investigation is ongoing, but any relationship between the vaccination and the reported symptoms can not be concluded."

        http://www.lakemedelsverket.se/english/All-news/N

        European Medicines Agency

        "After careful consideration, the CHMP concluded that the data presented by the Finnish researchers are preliminary and that the evidence presented so far is insufficient to allow conclusions to be drawn, and does not lead to any new concerns regarding Pandemrix or other vaccines, including other influenza vaccines. On the basis of the current evidence, the role of the Pandemrix antigen and its adjuvant on the association between Pandemrix and narcolepsy remains unknown."

        "http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/news_and_events/news/2012/10/news_detail_001636.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac058004d5c1"

        • Timmy_Robins says:

          Of course numbers have changed but it is important to point out that even if all 800 cases are conclusively linked to the vaccine , that is not even 1% of the total 30 million who got the shot in Europe. It is estimated that 150,000 – 500,000 people died of swine flu , without the vaccine there could have been thousands more . http://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/pandemic-global

          Also, although evidence seems to be growing a conclusive causal link has not been established yet and then there are other factors that could have contributed too like genetic predisposition and other airway infections like Mignot from Stanford has already said.

          If the link between the vaccine and narcolepsy is conclusively established it still doesn't mean that vaccines are more harmful than the diseases themselves.

          Vaccines save millions of lives every year and the benefits outweigh the risks by far.

          "Immunization is one of the most successful and cost-effective health interventions and prevents between 2 and 3 million deaths every year. From infants to senior citizens, immunization prevents debilitating illness, disability and death from vaccine-preventable diseases such as diphtheria, hepatitis A and B, measles, mumps, pneumococcal disease, polio, rotavirus diarrhoea, tetanus and yellow fever."

          "Ironically, the fact that immunization has made many infectious diseases rare or almost unheard of can lead to the opinion among parents and health professionals that immunization is no longer necessary. Due to gaps in vaccination coverage, diseases like diphtheria, measles and polio are making a comeback. Disease outbreaks affect everyone." From the World Health Organization http://www.who.int/immunization/newsroom/events/i

          The risks have been exaggerated by the anti-vaccine movement but science is not on their side, pseudoscience, misinformation and woo are.

          Antivaxers are anti-science not because there is a problem with science, but because there is a problem with them; they are scientifically illiterate, and they don't know how to interpret statistics .

          Scare tactics don't equal a good argument.

          To them I ask what about people who die or get sicker because of the ineffectiveness of alternative "medicine", what about heavy metals and toxic herbs used in Ayurveda and other traditional "medicine" remedies , how bout all the animal species that are on the brink of extinction thanks to traditional Chinese medicine? Can Reiki and homeopathy cure a ruptured appendix? What about the come back of preventable diseases caused by lack of immunization?

          So, in closing, I would love to know what are you suggesting? Should vaccines be banned? Hundreds of people die every year from food allergies, should peanuts and strawberries be banned too?

    • Erwin Alber says:

      "There is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza. The producers of these vaccines know that they are worthless, but they go on selling them, anyway."

      Dr. J. Anthony Morris
      Former Chief Vaccine Control Officer at the FDA

      Also, according to Dr Russell Blaylock MD, people who have the flu shot five years in a row have a tenfold-increased risk of getting Alzheimer's.

      As Aldous Huxley once remarked: "Medical science has made such tremendous progress that there is hardly a healthy human left."

      The truth is that vaccination is an organised criminal enterprise dressed up as disease prevention by means of junk science.

      • Sam says:

        Lol, what? Conspiracy theories now?

      • Sam says:

        You mean this Dr Blaylock:

        "Blaylock has been quoted several times in media outlets regarding his position that MSG is toxic to the brain.[11][12][13] He also states that the widely used artificial sweetener aspartame is toxic[14][15] and may be the cause of multiple sclerosis.[16] He has additionally cautioned against heavy use of the artificial sweetener Splenda (sucralose).[17] These positions are not supported by scientific consensus or regulatory bodies, as extensive studies support the safety of aspartame, sucralose, and MSG.[2][3][18]" <——– please, do notice the part where it says he is a bullsh**er.

  4. Timmy_Robins says:

    The examiner is hardly a reliable source of information.

    As for the link between narcolepsy and Pandermix, first of all there weren't hundreds of cases , there were 17 in Finland and 12 in Sweden the only problem is that the latest review by the European Medicines Agency (EMA) (Oct 2012) found no link between narcolepsy and the vaccine . Btw, 30.8 million people were vaccinated in Europe back then and no one reported millions or even hundreds of deaths caused by the vaccine.

    The tetanus-diphteria vaccine victim is not even worth mentioning because if you read carefully the story you linked to, it was clearly a case of medical error:

    "The doctor refused to administer drugs and the clinical picture worsened until she entered the vegetative state in which she remains today."

    The WHO estimates that in 2010 58 000 newborns died of neonatal tetanus and "In 2008, WHO estimated that 1.5 million of deaths among children under 5 years were due to diseases that could have been prevented by routine vaccination. This represents 17% of global total mortality in children under 5 years of age"

    Like I said, there is a lot of information out there that is not based on evidence.

  5. Marissa says:

    As far as the flu vaccine goes, I don't think it should be made all-out mandatory. I wouldn't get the shot myself if I didn't work in a hospital. But being a hypocrite, I do believe in the effect of herd immunity, and I think we all owe it to the children, elderly, and immune-compromised to get the flu vaccine. I really don' know much about other vaccines, though.

    • Erwin Alber says:

      Vaccines have never prevented anything, apart from health, sanity and common sense. Vaccination shoudl be abolished and this entire ciminal enterprise shut down for good.

  6. @MercuryThe says:

    No. Not getting the flu shot. Ever.

  7. steve says:

    I'll keep riding my bike everyday and eating healthy food. no shot for me.

  8. Lesley says:

    No. No flu shots ever. I don't see the point, and I detest the pressure put on my as a parent to give my 5-year old a flu shot. No thanks.

  9. Celia Farber says:

    Since Timmy_Robins has laid claim to factual as opposed to superstitious thinking, let's first look, together, at what makes a fact a fact.

    Karl Saliter linked this article which says there were 79 cases of (by government admission) vaccine induced narcolepsy in Finland and about 200 in Sweden.

    Here it is again:
    http://www.examiner.com/article/finland-and-swede

    Yet Timmy_Robins says confidently that there were 17 in Finland and 12 in Sweden–and that The Examiner is not credible.

    This is easy to establish. Mr. Robins, what is your reference for the numbers you cite? Let's get to the bottom of at least that question, so we can establish what makes a fact a fact. We all agree that we like facts.

    • karlsaliter says:

      I like facts. Facts are good.

    • Timmy_Robins says:

      The examiner is not a reliable source of information because it is not a news site, it is a multiuser blogger site that presents itself as a news site , it pays its writers based on page views and writers are not necessarily professionals, journalists. This means that more often than not the material tends to be biased and sensationalistic. In fact if you read carefully the story you linked to you will notice that at the bottom of the story there is a link to the original story meaning the author didn't do any research, she probably just picked the information relevant to her. At the very bottom there is a "suggested by the author" list of stories , you should check it out, I think it says a lot about her biases and lack of objectivity.

      The numbers I cited come from these government agencies:
      National Institute For Health And Welfare
      So far, the THL register for adverse events following immunization (AEFI) has received reports of six cases where narcolepsy has followed vaccination. The number is consistent with the annual incidence of narcolepsy under normal circumstances. However, in addition to the above, AEFI reports have not yet been submitted for a further nine possible cases. The symptoms of all the children with narcolepsy started at the end of 2009 and beginning of 2010.
      http://www.thl.fi/en_US/web/en/pressrelease?id=22

      Swedish Medical Products Agency
      "In total, there are 12 cases of narcolepsy reported to the MPA from healthcare professionals in Sweden with a suspected relationship to vaccination with Pandemrix. In addition to the cases reported in Sweden and Finland there are a few further cases reported in France, Germany and Norway. An investigation is ongoing, but any relationship between the vaccination and the reported symptoms can not be concluded."

      http://www.lakemedelsverket.se/english/All-news/N

      European Medicines Agency

      "After careful consideration, the CHMP concluded that the data presented by the Finnish researchers are preliminary and that the evidence presented so far is insufficient to allow conclusions to be drawn, and does not lead to any new concerns regarding Pandemrix or other vaccines, including other influenza vaccines. On the basis of the current evidence, the role of the Pandemrix antigen and its adjuvant on the association between Pandemrix and narcolepsy remains unknown."

      "http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/news_and_events/news/2012/10/news_detail_001636.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac058004d5c1&quot;

      • Timmy_Robins says:

        Of course numbers have changed but it is important to point out that even if all 800 cases are conclusively linked to the vaccine , that is not even 1% of the total 30 million who got the shot in Europe. It is estimated that 150,000 – 500,000 people died of swine flu , without the vaccine there could have been thousands more . http://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/pandemic-global

        Also, although evidence seems to be growing a conclusive causal link has not been established yet and then there are other factors that could have contributed too like genetic predisposition and other airway infections like Mignot from Stanford has already said.

        If the link between the vaccine and narcolepsy is conclusively established it still doesn't mean that vaccines are more harmful than the diseases themselves.

        Vaccines save millions of lives every year and the benefits outweigh the risks by far.

        "Immunization is one of the most successful and cost-effective health interventions and prevents between 2 and 3 million deaths every year. From infants to senior citizens, immunization prevents debilitating illness, disability and death from vaccine-preventable diseases such as diphtheria, hepatitis A and B, measles, mumps, pneumococcal disease, polio, rotavirus diarrhoea, tetanus and yellow fever."

        "Ironically, the fact that immunization has made many infectious diseases rare or almost unheard of can lead to the opinion among parents and health professionals that immunization is no longer necessary. Due to gaps in vaccination coverage, diseases like diphtheria, measles and polio are making a comeback. Disease outbreaks affect everyone." From the World Health Organization http://www.who.int/immunization/newsroom/events/i

        The risks have been exaggerated by the anti-vaccine movement but science is not on their side, pseudoscience, misinformation and woo are.

        Antivaxers are anti-science not because there is a problem with science, but because there is a problem with them; they are scientifically illiterate, and they don't know how to interpret statistics .

        Scare tactics don't equal a good argument.

        To them I ask what about people who die or get sicker because of the ineffectiveness of alternative "medicine", what about heavy metals and toxic herbs used in Ayurveda and other traditional "medicine" remedies , how bout all the animal species that are on the brink of extinction thanks to traditional Chinese medicine? Can Reiki and homeopathy cure a ruptured appendix? What about the come back of preventable diseases caused by lack of immunization?

        So, in closing, I would love to know what are you suggesting? Should vaccines be banned? Hundreds of people die every year from food allergies, should peanuts and strawberries be banned too?

        • Timmy_Robins says:

          Btw, Celia
          I dont know if you know this but (scientific) facts don't come from the Examiner.com or the Dailymail, facts come from government agencies, academic journals or peer reviewed journals, and similars.

          Referencing the examiner.com really weakens your argument ( or anyone elses's ) for sure.

  10. Robyn says:

    Yes. I get mine every year. I have had the flu one time in my life. I don't recall when I started getting the flu shot regularly or if I got it back then. I hardly ever get a cold, so I'd probably hardly ever get the flu either. I know that people feel passionately about it on both sides, but I guess I just lean toward getting one. I have never had any kind of issue that would be blamed on having had the flu shot, though maybe it would be hard to pinpoint it if I did. Or maybe it will happen later, when I'm 85 and I'll just be glad I didn't have the flu dozens of times throughout my life. I should also add that it wasn't until a few weeks ago that I realized it only protects you to about 60%. Knowing that, I'm not sure how I'll feel about it in the future. I think I'd have to hear more about the horrible ways the shot is destroying my body before I'd blow it off. I know there will be some haters to my response, but that's the way I feel.

  11. karlsaliter says:

    Facebook comments:

    Ann Nguyen Lol. "Heeeeeeell No." I'm out…I'll take my chances just the way I am, thanks anyway!
    January 16 at 8:52pm · Edited · Like · 1

    Elvia Gignoux I am out!
    January 16 at 8:54pm · Like

    Karl Saliter Meeee Toooo. And I bet Michael P Lande is with us?
    January 16 at 8:54pm · Like · 1

    Alyssa Carleton Hanrahan first year I've ever had a flu shot- I caved to peer pressure. Result – I've had a cold on and off since. OUT.
    January 16 at 8:55pm · Unlike · 1

    Kitty White WAY OUT!!!
    January 16 at 8:58pm · Unlike · 1

    Crispina Ffrench nope no flu shot here!
    January 16 at 9:08pm · Unlike · 1

    Karl Saliter awesome.
    January 16 at 9:38pm · Like

    Elizabeth Kay Marchetti Totally in, especially with an infant at home and a spouse who teaches at a public highschool.
    January 16 at 10:02pm via mobile · Like

    Elizabeth Kay Marchetti The state of CO announced today another two infants died recently from the flu. Totally preventable deaths, fucking stupid tragic.
    January 16 at 10:03pm via mobile · Like · 1

    Terri Stimpfel No Shot for Me..
    January 16 at 10:06pm · Like · 1

    Courtney Lane Totally in. So many people all around me have been suffering for weeks with a horrible strain of the flu. My kids and I have remained healthy and happy.
    January 16 at 10:33pm via mobile · Like

    Alan Hayes Personally, I practice social distancing. Fuck all you people! You're just tryin' to poison me!
    January 16 at 10:41pm via mobile · Like · 1

    Celia Ingrid Farber Karl: I can't access comments at your article, (must subscribe, and will) but this obliterates commenter Timmy's apologia claiming Examiner not credible and that there were not "hundreds" of cases in Scandinavia of narcolepsy from swine flu shots. Even GlaxoSmithKline doesn't deny it!
    http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/nm/insight-evidenc

    Insight – Evidence grows for narcolepsy link to GSK swine flu shot | Yahoo! Health
    health.yahoo.net
    STOCKHOLM (Reuters) – Emelie is plagued by hallucinations and nightmares. When s…
    See More
    20 minutes ago · Like · Remove Preview

    Celia Ingrid Farber "Nobody wants to be the next Wakefield." They should be so lucky. One has to have a moral spine to "be" a Wakefield. He has not been "discredited." And every day more damning data suggests history will rehabilitate him.
    16 minutes ago · Like

  12. karlsaliter says:

    I'm just discovering Tetyana's research. What do you guys think of this?

    "However, after years of doing research in immunology, observing scientific activities of my superiors, and analyzing vaccine issues, I realized that vaccination is one of the most deceptive inventions the science could ever convince the world to accept… …Immunology is a science that studies an artificial process of immunization – i.e., the immune system’s response to injected foreign matter. Immunology does not attempt to study and therefore cannot provide understanding of natural diseases and immunity that follows them… …Because immunologic experiments are unrealistic simulations of the natural process, immunologists’ understanding of nature is limited to understanding their own experimental models…
    …Immunologists have confined the scope of their knowledge to the box of experimental modeling, and they do not wish to see beyond that box. Thinking within the box only reinforces the notion of vaccination and cannot provide any other solution to the problem of diseases….
    …Despite the fact that the biological basis of naturally acquired immunity is not understood, present day medical practices insist upon artificial manipulation of the immune response (a.k.a. immunization or vaccination) to secure “immunity” without going through the actual disease process. The vaccine-induced process, although not resembling a natural disease, is nevertheless still a disease process with its own risks. And it is not immunity that we gain via vaccination but a puny surrogate of immunity. For this reason, vaccination at its core is neither a safe nor an effective method of disease prevention. Yet, immunologists have nothing better to offer because they can only go as far as their deeply rooted immunologic dogma allows them….
    …It is up to future generations of immunologists to rescue this science and put it on the right track. The benefits for humankind will be enormous, as this would make both vaccine injuries and fear of diseases a matter of the past. But to make this happen, the field of immunology must first be cleared from the weeds of immunologic dogma….
    Vaccine Illusion
    Tetyana Obukhanych, Ph.D.

    • Timmy_Robins says:

      Wow, all of this rhetoric and no references. No credible alternatives proposed. No peer reviewed studies to back up her claims.

      The "immunologic dogma" (note the negative evaluative term) on the other hand , tons of evidence to back it up, decades of research.

      Cherrypicking information that confirms your biases is not an argument (confirmation bias) nor evidence.

      I guess it is better to experience the full force of rabies or polio because vaccines are "bad" .

      I think she is right, vaccines save millions of lives not because they work but because the universe, god or the fairies want to.

      This woman and people of her kind are a menace to public health.

  13. Robyn says:

    Seems to me that the fact that several generations of people in many parts of the world have lived more or less without fear and threat of diseases such as polio, smallpox and measles. That would be because of vaccines. And how many vaccinated people do you know who have suffered ill effects that can be blamed on these vaccines? I've heard people say that they aren't vaccinating their kids because the vaccine side effects are worse than the actual diseases themselves. These kinds of statements come from people who have spent their lives under the safety net of "herd immunity" and have never had to watch their loved ones be maimed or killed by certain horrible diseases. Sorry, I've heard a lot of people preach the dangers of vaccines, but I've yet to see compelling proof (in my opinion) that it's better to face these diseases than be vaccinated. I know it's not particularly scientific, but I have yet to meet one person who has some ailment or health problem due to being vaccinated. But without these vaccinations, I'm sure I'd have known many to be crippled by polio, disfigured by smallpox or killed by some disease.
    It's each individual's decision to vaccinate, but when people opt out, they are not just putting themselves at risk. This is obvious from the pockets of disease that crop up in areas where people opt out of vaccinating their kids in high numbers. That puts newborn babies and others at higher risk for getting sick.

    • Timmy_Robins says:

      Really??????

      Did you read the "references"section? If you cant see what is wrong with that (and the site) and the whole tragic story of poor lil (probably ficticious) Emma then I hate to say this pal but you need a course on critical thinking skills.

      The worst thing is that you are spreading misinformation without even realizing you have a responsibility with your readers, really sad…and dangerous.

      What happened to the whole "do no harm" stuff? I guess it only applies sometimes .

      Please Don´t bother to reply to any of my comments, this "debate" is a waste of time .

  14. karlsaliter says:

    I am for parent/patient choice on vaccinations, simple as that.

    This is footage from court testimony given in support of House bill 1055. It is moving. It is real.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6VwL0HJUrI

  15. Erwin Alber says:

    They can stick this toxic filth into their own anatomy. There is NO WAY I would let anyone with a vaccine of any kind come near me or any member of my family.

  16. karlsaliter says:

    This matters:

    "There is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza. The producers of these vaccines know that they are worthless, but they go on selling them, anyway."

    Dr. J. Anthony Morris
    Former Chief Vaccine Control Officer at the FDA

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