Ken Wilber, famous Integral philosopher, makes like a Playgirl:
Like lifting weights to get our bodies in shape, we need to train our mind and heart to grow their ability to love, forgive, offer empathy. We need regimens to grow Buddha-Jesus hearts. ~ Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche
Most spiritual traditions forget the body and focus on the mind and heart. Not Ken Wilber, Integral Philosopher. Not Sakyong Mipham, the buff, weightlifting, marathon-running, golf-obsessed Shambhala Buddhist teacher. Not the Samurai of old, who practiced kyudo (archery), martial arts and horsemanship…along with meditation and the less strenuous contemplative arts of haiku, calligraphy, tea and flower-arranging. And not the Shaolin monks of legend.
Still,
why is it that most of our society gets that it’s important to work out and train the body…but forgets to train the mind through daily meditation or other practical, simple mental exercises?
And why is it that the religious and spiritual communities, all too often, do little by way of taking care of their bodies, lost as they are in navel-gazing?
~
It seems we all agree that training the body through exercise, diet, and relaxation is a good idea, but why don’t we think about training our mind?
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3975919 Responseshttp://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/02/spiritual-mind-buff-body/Spiritual+Mind%2C+Buff+Body%3F2010-02-10+16%3A32%3A34Waylon+Lewis to “Spiritual Mind, Buff Body?”
This is one of the several reasons I have a personal preference for Yoga to Buddhism. It's a better fit for me because I like the way Yoga treats the physical as just another way to be spiritual. Plus, I can't begin to do a lotus position.
You don't need to sit in Lotus! Trungpa Rinpoche was all about zafus, gomdens (which he more or less invented for we Westerners, it's the higher-up square cushion) and even chairs if need be are all "kosher." That said, we Buddhists do tend to forget or ignore the body much more than our yoga sisters and brothers.
This has been a struggle for me in the past. I then studied for 3 years to become ordained while simultaneously studying to become a black belt in karate. I am now a second degree black belt and do physical fitness training with Frank at http://www.qfitindy.com and I still struggle with the physical. It is the practice, though, no? My body is as much a part of the world in which I live as anything else. How do I interact with it?
Thanks for the great post… Just as a point of reference, those Shaolin are more than likely performers more than monks. It is the way of it now but they are still quite impressive.
I wrote my previous comment before looking at the excellent first video above of Sakyong Mipham. Clearly he sees the mind/body connection very much like Yoga sees it. I have to confess, I've rarely heard a Buddhist commentator come across this way. But I really like this lama, at least from this one video. His whole tone and approach are very appealing.
As for Wilber, some people feel that the biggest problem with him is that he considers himself a God, a notion certainly not contradicted by this particular pose and expression in your picture above!
Ken Wilbur must have spent a lot of time reading Marvel comics in his youth and wanted to look like one of them. The body is very plastic and will take on the form you deem for it. His physical aesthetic amuses me. It seems to reveal a lot of tension overall, as in tightly wound.
Good point, Phyllis. I was deeply put-off by the picture, but I never thought of it the way you expressed it before, as a sign of what's going on inside.
I hesitated to write this before, because I haven't read Wilber and can't make any judgments on my own. But as a matter of information, the problem Wilber's detractors have with him is that he considers himself a kind of God. This notion that he considers himself a God would certainly not be discouraged by this particular photo.
Whoa Ken…so glad you ditched that tired old checked sports coat, seen in so many of your books! I believe Ken's pix is for real…and I am forever grateful to him for the inspiration to take up hatha yoga. Six years later, with countless meditation and yoga hours behind me, and most of Ken's books read, it is dedication to several authentic developmental lines that keeps my head above water and my halcyon heart unbolted, despite these crazy times, crazy life. SweetThanksBe!
Bob, don’t judge a book by its cover, nor a mind/spirit by its muscles, or lack thereof. The greatness of yoga, and especially its tantric aspects, is body/mind/spirit integration. However, many great yogis (Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharishi) never spent much time doing asanas except sitting in the lotus position. So, many enlightened Buddhists never bothered to have a six-pack-abdomen like Wilber. In tantric yoga (both Buddhist and Hindu) there are actually meditation techniques used as substitutes for doing asanas, as well, so this is a complex issues. Wilber has made a point of emphasizing the body-mind-spirit balance in all his books, and I think he sees himself as a work in progress, and definitely not a God. (Where did you get that idea?) I have read most of his works, interviews, articles, etc., and I have not read that he considers himself any more than a pundit (scholar) and someone whose goal is to remind us of the importance of integral development. Indeed, he has made a point of not calling himself a guru. The body/mind/spirit are nested layers of existence, one transcending and including the other, so in yoga the body is the outer layer of the mind, the shell, so to speak. Keep in mind that Wilber considers Ramana Maharishi one of the greatest yogis of modern times. Not because of his physical looks (he would not make the cover of the body-obsessed Yoga Journal today) but because he understood the inner illumination and wisdom revealed by his spirit. This fact, shows, I think, that Wilber considers the body for what it is, a vehicle, a tool, a step, a yantra, toward higher and deeper development. So, let’s celebrate diversity–yogis come in all physical shapes and spiritual forms.
Hi, Ramesh. I'm having trouble figuring out what you thought I said that would lead to this particular response. I do celebrate diversity, just as you suggest. And I try not to be in the habit of judging a book by its cover.
As for Wilber, as I've written in out other exchanges, I know nothing very little about him and should not be commenting. The impressions I've cited come, of course, from Falk, which we've also discussed. He does seem to be a controversial figure, but I shouldn't be writing about him until I'm better informed.
Hi, Ramesh. I'm having trouble figuring out what you thought I said that would lead to this particular response. I do celebrate diversity, just as you suggest. And I try not to be in the habit of judging a book by its cover.
As for Wilber, as I've written in out other exchanges, I know nothing very little about him and should not be commenting. The impressions I've cited come, of course, from Falk, which we've also discussed. He does seem to be a controversial figure, but I shouldn't be writing about him until I'm better informed.
Bob,
my comments were both for you personally and also to the general reader. The personal part was in relation to your comment that Wilber considers himself "God" (which is highly unlikely and which you have not ventured any proof of) and your judgement that his fit body is "a sign of what's going on inside." The body, like a book cover, may or may not reveal what's inside. That's why I added my points about genuine yogis coming in all shapes and forms, some having fit bodies, some not.
Also, the fact that he is controversial means nothing. The sweetest and wisest of all people, the Dali Lama, is also controversial. Just ask any Chinese official. Hence, I suggest you follow your own advise by not making knee-jerk comments about Wilber before you familiarize yourself with his work.
In conclusion, I'll offer this gem of wisdom from Wilber's book One Taste, which I think reveals he is more than his ripped body: [The body] is transcended and included by the mind, which is transcended and included by Spirit. The body is the foundation and the roots and the starting point. But if you merely stay there, you will totally sabotage mind and Spirit."
What's not to like about a guy who looks and writes like that?
I'm not sure you noticed that this post and my comment were from three months ago. I've already agreed with you here and in our e-mails that I shouldn't be commenting on Wilber until I know more.
I don't know how much clearer I can say it than I did in my last comment above: "As for Wilber…I know nothing very little about him and should not be commenting….I shouldn't be writing about him until I'm better informed."
Bob,
If you have the time, the best place to start with Wilber's integral theory, I think, is the 800 or so page book Sex, Ecology, Spirituality. If you don't want to spend the time or the money, the second best choice is A Brief History of Everything, which is basically a short version of the former book. I also recommend The Marriage of Sense and Soul, which is his attempt at integrating science and spirituality. I do not recommend A Theory of Everything, and if you want to know why, you can read my criticism of that book on Amazon.
Thanks, Ramesh. I'm not sure Wilber is where I want to go next in my spiritual reading, certainly not an 800 page book. There must be some excellent New Yorker depth articles I can read that will give me a good feel for Wilber. Do you have any of those to recommend?
This just reflects where I happen to be right now. There are other times I would relish a highly scholarly, all angles considered, intellectual tour-de-force like Wilber has apparently written, but right now I'm going in the opposite direction–radical simplification and integration of the non-verbal, non-intellectual aspects of the big three ancient Yoga texts into my everyday life.
So, if I'm going to do anything with Wilber now it will have to be in-depth articles or blogs. Perhaps I should just got to his website. I assume that would be pretty representative.
Are we to expect a Waylon Lewis versus Ken Wilber bout any time soon? You'll probably need a good "cut man" in your corner, Waylon. It could be a WWE first live event in Boulder. In the saffron trunks in this corner we have Waylon (the green man) Lewis and in the other corner we have Ken (the philosopher of Wheaties) WIlber wearing golden brown trunks. I would even make a trip to Boulder to see that. (Maybe it could be a fundraiser for Elephant.)
I certainly would not suggest Sex, Ecology and Spirituality as an introduction to Wilbur. If you want more of the heart of the man before diving into his theories on holons and the structure of the universe et al, may I suggest "Grace and Grit," or "No Boundary."
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This is one of the several reasons I have a personal preference for Yoga to Buddhism. It's a better fit for me because I like the way Yoga treats the physical as just another way to be spiritual. Plus, I can't begin to do a lotus position.
Bob Weisenberg
http://YogaDemystified.com
You don't need to sit in Lotus! Trungpa Rinpoche was all about zafus, gomdens (which he more or less invented for we Westerners, it's the higher-up square cushion) and even chairs if need be are all "kosher." That said, we Buddhists do tend to forget or ignore the body much more than our yoga sisters and brothers.
This has been a struggle for me in the past. I then studied for 3 years to become ordained while simultaneously studying to become a black belt in karate. I am now a second degree black belt and do physical fitness training with Frank at http://www.qfitindy.com and I still struggle with the physical. It is the practice, though, no? My body is as much a part of the world in which I live as anything else. How do I interact with it?
Thanks for the great post… Just as a point of reference, those Shaolin are more than likely performers more than monks. It is the way of it now but they are still quite impressive.
I wrote my previous comment before looking at the excellent first video above of Sakyong Mipham. Clearly he sees the mind/body connection very much like Yoga sees it. I have to confess, I've rarely heard a Buddhist commentator come across this way. But I really like this lama, at least from this one video. His whole tone and approach are very appealing.
As for Wilber, some people feel that the biggest problem with him is that he considers himself a God, a notion certainly not contradicted by this particular pose and expression in your picture above!
Bob Weisenberg
http://YogaDemystified.com
Ken Wilbur must have spent a lot of time reading Marvel comics in his youth and wanted to look like one of them. The body is very plastic and will take on the form you deem for it. His physical aesthetic amuses me. It seems to reveal a lot of tension overall, as in tightly wound.
Good point, Phyllis. I was deeply put-off by the picture, but I never thought of it the way you expressed it before, as a sign of what's going on inside.
I hesitated to write this before, because I haven't read Wilber and can't make any judgments on my own. But as a matter of information, the problem Wilber's detractors have with him is that he considers himself a kind of God. This notion that he considers himself a God would certainly not be discouraged by this particular photo.
Bob Weisenberg
http://YogaDemystified.com
It looks like someone else's body was pasted below Wilbur's head. I've never seen a 61 yr. old guy look like this. For Real?
Whoa Ken…so glad you ditched that tired old checked sports coat, seen in so many of your books! I believe Ken's pix is for real…and I am forever grateful to him for the inspiration to take up hatha yoga. Six years later, with countless meditation and yoga hours behind me, and most of Ken's books read, it is dedication to several authentic developmental lines that keeps my head above water and my halcyon heart unbolted, despite these crazy times, crazy life. SweetThanksBe!
Bob, don’t judge a book by its cover, nor a mind/spirit by its muscles, or lack thereof. The greatness of yoga, and especially its tantric aspects, is body/mind/spirit integration. However, many great yogis (Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharishi) never spent much time doing asanas except sitting in the lotus position. So, many enlightened Buddhists never bothered to have a six-pack-abdomen like Wilber. In tantric yoga (both Buddhist and Hindu) there are actually meditation techniques used as substitutes for doing asanas, as well, so this is a complex issues. Wilber has made a point of emphasizing the body-mind-spirit balance in all his books, and I think he sees himself as a work in progress, and definitely not a God. (Where did you get that idea?) I have read most of his works, interviews, articles, etc., and I have not read that he considers himself any more than a pundit (scholar) and someone whose goal is to remind us of the importance of integral development. Indeed, he has made a point of not calling himself a guru. The body/mind/spirit are nested layers of existence, one transcending and including the other, so in yoga the body is the outer layer of the mind, the shell, so to speak. Keep in mind that Wilber considers Ramana Maharishi one of the greatest yogis of modern times. Not because of his physical looks (he would not make the cover of the body-obsessed Yoga Journal today) but because he understood the inner illumination and wisdom revealed by his spirit. This fact, shows, I think, that Wilber considers the body for what it is, a vehicle, a tool, a step, a yantra, toward higher and deeper development. So, let’s celebrate diversity–yogis come in all physical shapes and spiritual forms.
Hi, Ramesh. I'm having trouble figuring out what you thought I said that would lead to this particular response. I do celebrate diversity, just as you suggest. And I try not to be in the habit of judging a book by its cover.
As for Wilber, as I've written in out other exchanges, I know nothing very little about him and should not be commenting. The impressions I've cited come, of course, from Falk, which we've also discussed. He does seem to be a controversial figure, but I shouldn't be writing about him until I'm better informed.
Thanks for writing.
Bob Weisenberg
ElephantJournal.com
Hi, Ramesh. I'm having trouble figuring out what you thought I said that would lead to this particular response. I do celebrate diversity, just as you suggest. And I try not to be in the habit of judging a book by its cover.
As for Wilber, as I've written in out other exchanges, I know nothing very little about him and should not be commenting. The impressions I've cited come, of course, from Falk, which we've also discussed. He does seem to be a controversial figure, but I shouldn't be writing about him until I'm better informed.
Thanks for writing.
Bob Weisenberg
ElephantJournal.com
Bob,
my comments were both for you personally and also to the general reader. The personal part was in relation to your comment that Wilber considers himself "God" (which is highly unlikely and which you have not ventured any proof of) and your judgement that his fit body is "a sign of what's going on inside." The body, like a book cover, may or may not reveal what's inside. That's why I added my points about genuine yogis coming in all shapes and forms, some having fit bodies, some not.
Also, the fact that he is controversial means nothing. The sweetest and wisest of all people, the Dali Lama, is also controversial. Just ask any Chinese official. Hence, I suggest you follow your own advise by not making knee-jerk comments about Wilber before you familiarize yourself with his work.
In conclusion, I'll offer this gem of wisdom from Wilber's book One Taste, which I think reveals he is more than his ripped body: [The body] is transcended and included by the mind, which is transcended and included by Spirit. The body is the foundation and the roots and the starting point. But if you merely stay there, you will totally sabotage mind and Spirit."
What's not to like about a guy who looks and writes like that?
Hi, Ramesh.
I'm not sure you noticed that this post and my comment were from three months ago. I've already agreed with you here and in our e-mails that I shouldn't be commenting on Wilber until I know more.
I don't know how much clearer I can say it than I did in my last comment above: "As for Wilber…I know nothing very little about him and should not be commenting….I shouldn't be writing about him until I'm better informed."
Aren't we in wild agreement here?
Bob, Yes, I think we are in Wild Wilberian agreement now!!!
I hope I end up loving Wilber when I finally catch up on him, Ramesh. I really do. Your endorsement certainly makes me open to that. Thanks.
Bob,
If you have the time, the best place to start with Wilber's integral theory, I think, is the 800 or so page book Sex, Ecology, Spirituality. If you don't want to spend the time or the money, the second best choice is A Brief History of Everything, which is basically a short version of the former book. I also recommend The Marriage of Sense and Soul, which is his attempt at integrating science and spirituality. I do not recommend A Theory of Everything, and if you want to know why, you can read my criticism of that book on Amazon.
Thanks, Ramesh. I'm not sure Wilber is where I want to go next in my spiritual reading, certainly not an 800 page book. There must be some excellent New Yorker depth articles I can read that will give me a good feel for Wilber. Do you have any of those to recommend?
This just reflects where I happen to be right now. There are other times I would relish a highly scholarly, all angles considered, intellectual tour-de-force like Wilber has apparently written, but right now I'm going in the opposite direction–radical simplification and integration of the non-verbal, non-intellectual aspects of the big three ancient Yoga texts into my everyday life.
So, if I'm going to do anything with Wilber now it will have to be in-depth articles or blogs. Perhaps I should just got to his website. I assume that would be pretty representative.
Thanks for your help.
Are we to expect a Waylon Lewis versus Ken Wilber bout any time soon? You'll probably need a good "cut man" in your corner, Waylon. It could be a WWE first live event in Boulder. In the saffron trunks in this corner we have Waylon (the green man) Lewis and in the other corner we have Ken (the philosopher of Wheaties) WIlber wearing golden brown trunks. I would even make a trip to Boulder to see that. (Maybe it could be a fundraiser for Elephant.)
I certainly would not suggest Sex, Ecology and Spirituality as an introduction to Wilbur. If you want more of the heart of the man before diving into his theories on holons and the structure of the universe et al, may I suggest "Grace and Grit," or "No Boundary."