“Women don’t Lie.” ~ Anonymous

Via elephant journal
on May 9, 2011
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This article comes via the mother of a longtime friend of mine, who I and many of us know to be a gentle bear of a man, far kinder and sweeter than me or just about anyone I know..! We here at elephant are happy to support this important dialogue. I would only ask that we conduct any discussion in a respectful manner, given the many painful and troubling questions it invites. We must all remember that while you and I are free to bike around and work and eat lunch and take our dogs for walks, friends of ours may be stuck in similar situations as the below. Right or wrong, this is a situation that calls for compassion and insight. ~ Waylon Lewis, ed.

I cannot tell you my name because what I am about to talk about is an ongoing legal matter. I will tell you that I am a feminist. That I fought for the rights of women to be believed. I worked for a rape crisis center in the 80s. I helped organize and participated in Take Back the Night events. I am friends with therapists and activists who have worked tirelessly for the rights of women and children. I was sexually abused as a child, and it defined my life for a number of years.

I am also a mother. I have raised a beautiful son, now a beautiful, caring man. He is honorable and strong. He has a deep spiritual practice. He is a man sensitive to the needs of women. Because of my involvement in “the movement” and because at some point he became aware of my own painful history, he is empathetic to women who have been abused.

Last year a woman, we’ll call her Sarah, accused my son of attempted sexual assault. She said, she thinks he tried to rape her. She and my son had been dating for a couple of months, but mostly they were consoling each other, I think. He, brokenhearted over the recent breakup of a long term relationship, she, confused over her on again, off again boyfriend who didn’t treat her very well.

This woman was also feeling a lot of conflict between her purported Christian beliefs and being attracted to two men. Discussions with her therapist didn’t help because, as she told my son, (let’s call him Robert), the therapist said, “what’s wrong with being attracted to two men?” But she couldn’t deal with that, and came to Robert’s house and told him she didn’t want to see him anymore. It wasn’t quite as clear cut as that because she lay down on the bed with Robert and there was flirting and fondling before she came to her decision. When she did, Robert agreed, and got up, walked her to the door. They hugged and he walked her to her car.

I know a lot of this because my son and I are friends. He had reservations about this relationship and had voiced his concerns to me. Sarah had told him that her father had abused her as a child and she had been in therapy for a long time. She had been on serious medications for bi-polar disorder for most of that time. Last summer while they were dating, she decided to get off of her meds. She told Robert she was experiencing blackouts. “Is that normal?” she would ask him. She had exhibited some strange behavior through the course of their relationship, but he had great empathy. I think seeing this reflected his own damaged soul and mine. But he was relieved when she called it off.

I have talked to therapists about bi-polar disorder, the meds that treat it and what happens when a person goes off those meds without a doctor’s supervision. None of it is good. One therapist I talked to said that false accusations skyrocket when someone decides to go cold-turkey. But because of rape shield laws that have been in place since the early 80s and because of defense lawyers’ fear of seeming to be “victim bashing,” these things more than likely will not be brought up. Nor can we bring up her litigious nature and her perception that a lot of other people, including a massage therapist, are out to hurt her.

That was the last of it for a month and then she began to think that Robert had ‘tried’ to rape her. She contacted the police. A policewoman wired her up and had her call Robert at 9pm one night. I have seen the transcript of that call and through the words on the page you can feel her desperation as she begs Robert to admit to something, anything that will “prove” her allegations.

You can hear Robert’s bewilderment as he denies over and over again her false accusations. At one point, he calls her sweetie (as he calls all his close friends), “Sweetie, I know you’re in pain.”

Despite no evidence, despite the fact that she is obviously a troubled woman, despite other attempts by her in the past to accuse people of hurting her in some way, despite her own admissions of wanting to sue others still, despite my son’s spotless record and the support of myriad women who have known him for years, the state has chosen to pursue this “case.”

If you think that women don’t lie to get back at men, how naive can you be? Yet we live in a culture of “women don’t lie,” a culture fostered by women’s groups since the 70s. A culture I helped create and support. A philosophy I believed.

Because why would women lie? The process of coming forward, going through the legal system was so horrific, so humiliating, why in the world would a woman put herself through it?

But that was then. Then, sexual abuse was hidden and women were maligned and humiliated if they dared come forward. And strong, brave women stood up for the rights of their children and themselves.

Now there are women’s groups with a strong political voice. There are women in political office, policewomen, and so on. Men and women now are predisposed to believe women when they accuse someone of rape. It is sometimes a knee jerk reaction that we have not evaluated for its veracity. We have not wanted to hear that women sometimes lie. The system has supported all women even those who lie. They’ve made it easy for them. If it is proven that a woman has lied, they are not prosecuted. They are at most sent to counseling. And being a “victim” can be intoxicating to some. It can let them off the hook for being responsible for their own actions.

But who is going to protect our sons? We who were on the front lines in the 70s when things were bad for women, we have raised good sons. Men we are proud of. Who will stand up for them?

I am now appalled to think that I was one of these women who thought that women don’t lie…and where there smoke there’s always a fire. Despite having raised a beautiful son, I was a sexist. Then I started doing research. There have been studies done since the 80s citing the percentage of rape allegations that are false.  Some studies say as high as 60%. People who have been dealing with this for years have tried to tell us that women do lie. But we haven’t wanted to hear.

(I will quote these studies but will not footnote them. They are listed at the end of this article.)

In a 1996 study published by the U.S. Department of Justice, “Convicted by Juries, Exonerated by Science” Peter Neufeld and Barry C Scheck co-founders of the Innocence Project stated:

“Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing… These percentages have remained constant for 7 years.”

Colorado’s own Craig Silverman, a former Denver DA and a zealous prosecutor of rapists, was also critical of what he calls the “politically correct victims advocate’s view” held by many prosecutors who want to “always believe the woman.” Silverman states:

“During my time as a prosecutor who made case filing decisions, I was amazed to see all the false rape allegations that were made to the Denver Police Department.  It was remarkable and surprising to me.  You would have to see it to believe it.  Any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes that there is. A command officer in the Denver police sex assaults unit recently told me he placed the false rape numbers at approximately 45 percent.”

Feminist rhetoric has merely replaced the old stereotypes. Now instead of being humiliated and scorned when we come forward, we are welcomed with an all-encompassing “Women Don’t Lie.”

“Due to the institutionalization of feminist ideology within the legal system – along with the political correctness that pervades our society – a lot of men have been defamed, imprisoned and/or fined due to the false accusations that were made against them by women.  For this reason, a lot of Divorce lawyers encourage their female clients to falsely accuse their husbands of rape, child abuse and/or domestic violence.” – Aaron Larsen

We have systematically refused to consider the possibility that women lie. We have even attacked those who wanted to discuss the possibility. Law professor Alan Dershowitz reports that he was accused of sexual harassment for discussing in his law class the possibility of false rape allegations. Some colleges with speech codes have equated talk of false rape allegations with “discriminatory harassment.”

Why would women lie?

Why wouldn’t women lie? They lie to protect themselves, to alleviate guilt, or because they are delusional. They lie because they can. For all the reasons that people lie, women lie.

“Empirical evidence does not support the widespread belief that women are extremely unlikely to make false accusations of male sexual misconduct. Rather the research on accusations of rape, sexual harassment, incest and child sexual abuse indicates that false accusations have become a serious problem. The motivations involved in making a false report are widely varied and include confusion, outside influence from therapists and others, habitual lying, advantages in custody, disputes, financial gain and the political ideology of radical feminism.” – Frank S. Zepezauer

But there is another reason women lie about rape. Rape is a deeply personal crime. Some women even harbor rape fantasies. Falsely accusing a man of rape can be deeply satisfying because it is sexual and even romantic. And it cuts to the heart of a male/female relationship. In his paper, Patients Who Make False Accusations, Dr. Richard C. W. Hall cites a particular case in which:

“We talked to a young borderline woman, who reported that she had made allegations to her county medical society that her psychiatrist had been sexually inappropriate with her. She reported that she was angry at him, that he had not given her the attention that she wanted, and that she made up the charges to get even. Although she candidly reported that he had never touched her, she said that she ‘was sure that he wanted to.’”

I have watched my son for 40 years. I have watched him grow from boy to man. I have seen him in his interactions with women and men. I have marveled at his sensitivity, his empathy. Many times I have thought, “Wow, he is a feminist’s dream. A man who listens. Who cares. Who is strong and deeply spiritual. A man who can be a woman’s friend. Who can comfort another in time of need. He is truly a good and decent man.

But if you would discount the word of a mother, what about all the women in his life? The girlfriend that has known him since high school to his most recent girlfriend? All have come forward on his behalf. All have remained his steadfast friend even after their romantic relationship ended.

And what of the word of their parents who have come forward? Including two psychotherapists who work with battered women. What of the casual dating partners and friends from far and wide, both male and female who have all come forward on his behalf? They too have spoken out for him. This man is not capable of doing this thing.

Never have I been to visit him that someone did not congratulate me on raising such a fine man.

Our good men are being harmed. This good man is being harmed.

“Due to immense pressure from rabid feminists, the state was placed in the position of convicting as many accused rapists as possible, or face an onslaught of abuse from second-wave-feminists….” – Aaron Larsen

The current climate in Colorado appears to be: Try them all. Let God sort them out. I have been told that there are political reasons for that. Reasons that have nothing to do with the validity of a particular case but with the fear of an attack by an opponent in an election. The District Attorney is an elected official. But doesn’t the state have better things to do than try meritless cases? Isn’t there a voice of reason somewhere?

Dr. Richard C. W. Hall in his paper, Patients Who Make False Allegations, The Role of the Forensic Psychiatrist, has created a checklist for the evaluation of patients’ allegations. It follows:

1)    Is accuser creditable?

2)    Is story consistent and believable?

3)    Is there a motive for revenge or mischief?

4)    Have other allegations been made previously?  Does a pattern of allegations exist?

5)    Has the patient been counseled in their charges by some professional who has a vested interest?

6)    Is there any physical evidence of misdeed?

7)    What is the reputation of the accused?

8)    How does the accused respond to the charges?

9)    Are there issues of custody, property settlement, divorce, or suit involved?

10) Is there a history of personality disorder – antisocial, narcissistic, borderline – in either party?

11) Is there a history of alcohol or substance abuse in either party?

If the state were to apply this or any reasonable checklist to the allegations against my son, this “case” would have gone in the trash bin months ago, we wouldn’t be out thousands of dollars, countless sleepless nights and the feeling that the system simply doesn’t work.

If anyone can accuse a good man of something like this and cause him so much grief, then what has our system become? The terms rape, sexual assault, sexual abuse have become so ubiquitous as to be meaningless (although still very much emotionally charged).  We have cast such a wide net that laws and statutes that were devised to protect us from the worst of the worst, the serial rapists, sexual predators and pedophiles are now being used to punish men who urinate near school yards or a boyfriend who takes the arm of his inebriated girlfriend to get her out of a party.

An article titled Feminists Fallacies Hurt Police Training states:

“If every incident between a man and a woman can be framed as a prelude to an atrocity, then all men can be branded as predators. The error in logic, that all men are potential rapists, allows feminists to link attitudes and behaviors for which there is NO connection and allows them to condemn the mild-mannered man given to the occasional caustic comment to sharing an axis with O.J. Simpson.”

That is not to say that there are not terrible crimes committed against women and children every day. According to Believe Her! The Woman Never Lies Myth, Frank Zepezauer says:

“This growing gap – between the  anguish suffered by the victims of traditionally defined sex crimes and what is suffered by victims of ideologically defined crimes – suggests that the crisis we face is not the result of a sexual misconduct epidemic but of the crisis mentality itself, an ever more hysterical vision of a ‘rape culture.’”

This hysterical crisis mentality has created a gap between our awareness of the now highly visible victims of sexual misconduct and the almost invisible victims of false allegation. The lesser known victims have their own stories to tell, enough to reveal another long ignored injustice that demands remediation. False allegations of sexual misconduct have deprived a rapidly growing number of men and women of their reputations, their fortunes, their children, their livelihood and their freedom. Wasting the time and money of families and communities, and have left some so desperate that they have taken their own lives.

Zepezauer concludes:

“For that reason, in the current revision of our sexual misconduct code, we must retain as a guiding premise the realization that women can lie because we know that, for several reasons, more than a few women have lied, more often than idealogues have admitted….too often, in any event, to be ignored by our jurisprudence, feminist or otherwise.”

It’s time that we admitted what is right in front of us. Not every woman tells the truth and not every man is a potential rapist.

Please someone, tell the State of Colorado.


Sources used in this article:

MND, mensnewsdaily.com, “During My Time as a Prosecutor I was Amazed to See all the False Rape Allegations that Were Made.”

North Shore News, Alana Mercer, “Feminist Fallacies Hurt Police Training?

Men’s Rights Online, Aaron Larsen, “False Accusation Issues”

Dr. Richard C. W. Hall Publications, Dr. Richard C. W. Hall, “Patients Who Make False Allegations”

Salon Newsreel, Cathy Young, Who Says WomenNever Lie About Rape?”

FoxNews.com, Wendy McElroy, “False Rape Accusations May Be More Common Than Thought”

IPT Journal, Frank S. Zepezauer, “Believe Her! The Woman Never Lies Myth”

Richardwebster.net, Richard Webster, “False Allegations: End This Cruel Injustice”


The Witchcraft Trials in Salem:  A Commentary by Douglas Linder


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314 Responses to ““Women don’t Lie.” ~ Anonymous”

  1. Louisa says:

    Something similar happened to my cousin- one of the most gentle, respectful people I know. He's a history teacher who was babysitting a study hall. A girl was standing next to him while he was seated, and began talking on her cell phone. He tapped her knee to get her attention silently and asked her to put the phone away, as per school policy. And this girl, despite the room full of watching students (none of whom backed her up), accused him of groping her butt and making a lewd comment. It turned out the girl had made similarly hysterical accusations before and was known as a drama queen and an instigator. She called her mother, someone with influence on the school board, who then came down to the school and grabbed my cousin by the shirt to scream at him in front of other kids. One child pulled out his cell phone and filmed the incident, only to have his phone confiscated by the principal and the video file erased.

    My cousin was lucky- the judge was sensible enough to look at the sheer improbability of the accusation (really? A teacher groping a girl in front of a classroom of about 30 watching kids?), the wildly fluctuating, changeable story, and the previous behavior of both accuser and accused, and dismissed the case. He was able to keep his job. But for a while there, he thought he was going to lose it, and that his new wife's ex husband would be able to use the case as fodder in their ongoing custody battle over their young daughter. His life was almost ruined because one girl decided to make a teacher pay for telling her to put her cell phone away.

    I do hate the blame the victim mentality that causes people to ask what a rape victim was wearing, or how she was behaving. Rape and sexual assault are never okay. But lying about rape and assault? That is also heinous behavior. It ruins lives, and it belittles true victims.

  2. elephantjournal says:

    Chris Tashi by only revealing what they want you to know, technically…they are not lying

    elephantjournal.com Chris, did you read the lady's article before commenting? I can't tell, my bad. ~ W.

    Lolly Galvin I know a similar duration. Women do lie

    Jennifer Imme I read the article. Very informative & shocking to me, but I will always respect the truth, no matter how incriminating or sad it may be. Great article.

    Cindy Wells Yaple That is so sad…..

    Chris Tashi regarding the truth, discrimination is always the best policy

    J.J. Arrant The fact is only rich men are in power, the rest of us live as second class citizens. We are told we are in power, while women own the mantle of victim, prohibiting us from having any chance to change the places we lack power. I really liked the author's writing but couldn't help thinking a man writing an article about going through this situation wouldn't get published.

  3. That's horrible! I have a 10year old son and your story–along with others I've heard from moms with boys in high school–prepares me for what's to come. I wish you and your son the best.

  4. KristinSLuce says:

    You make a great case, and of course, as a reader, I am not be in a position to "know" whether he did anything or not. I can say that I have worked with borderline clients who would accuse anyone of anything if they thought it would get them what they wanted.

    I was struck by you comment: "If anyone can accuse a good man of something like this and cause him so much grief, then what has our system become?" But, of course what look like "good men" DO rape women and children. Men who "look good" can be the classic pedophile, for example. The truth is that anyone can and should be able to make an allegation, and one hopes that the justice system will be unbiased in hearing and ruling on these cases such that only a small number of cases will be heard and/or ruled on in error. Your article raises serious questions about whether that is what is actually happening, or whether the "women-as-victims" has swayed the judicial and political system. Thank you for that.

    I am deeply sorry to hear about what you and your son are going through, with the assumption that what you see and say here is correct. Simply defending oneself is an enormous financial and emotional catastrophe, as I well know from my own life experience.

  5. Sasha A. says:

    What a powerful, informative piece. Thanks for the eye-opener, and best of luck to you and your family.

  6. A. Reasoner says:

    It’s about time that reasonable people come to the understanding that feminism has become yet another corrupt ideology. What once started as good and just has transmogrified into an ugly beast.

    Who better to reform that beast than those who breathed life into it?

    Every ideology needs a reformation to return to usefulness, and if there is any intellectual or moral honor among women, then they will begin the reformation of feminism post haste before more craziness can be done.

    Let the scales fall from their eyes, that they may see……….

  7. If the son of the author is indeed innocent, I am very sorry.

    That said, I think the author's pain in experiencing this has severely affected her judgment. The message alone, that WOMEN DO lie, reminds me of "Jackie Onassis poops." Of course, women lie sometimes. But 60% of the time? I would like to see that statistic measured up against the number of sexual assaults that go unreported. While there may be a percentage of women who have mental illness, or personality disorders, (the cases she is citing,) who make false accusations- actually the statistics say that the vast majority of sex crimes are NOT even reported. These sources cited are not reliable sources. Fox News?

    "Some women even harbor rape fantasies. Falsely accusing a man of rape can be deeply satisfying because it is sexual and even romantic." This statement is harmful and offensive.

    Waylon, I know that you ask for respect in this conversation, but I am not sure that your friend's mother deserves more respect and kid-gloved handling than sexual assault victims/survivors who read this and are deeply confused at so many misunderstandings and the perpetuation of so many false stereotypes. Accusing a man of rape is "romantic." Surely she has never sat in a room and been grilled hour after hour over minute details so that she can be proven an incompetent witness. Surely she has never sat in a hospital waiting room in glaring neon lights waiting to be swabbed and probed while in shock after already having experienced trauma.

    While I can appreciate the perspective of a distraught mother, in what appears to be an unfair situation, I cannot appreciate the need to then call the majority of women liars nor the blaming of feminism for a large oversight for the difficult position of the falsely accused man.

  8. hmh says:

    The Duke Lacrosse men's team was falsely accused of rape. This article is no surprise, but the author — and especially her son — have my sympathy.

  9. Seerak says:

    It’s about time that reasonable people come to the understanding that feminism has become yet another corrupt ideology. What once started as good and just has transmogrified into an ugly beast.

    That is the pattern followed by all the old “equality” movements, as their liberal philosophic base was co-opted and inverted from underneath them by its enemy, the Left.

    What started as an effort to secure individual rights now finds itself transformed into a movement dedicated to destroying them. What once sought to bring together, now seeks to segregate. What once sought to highlight the relative unimportance of gender and skin color, now stresses them.

    Where once there was Susan B. Anthony, there is now Carol Gilligan; where once there was Martin Luther King, there is now Al Sharpton.

    It is important to grasp that this “transmogrification” didn’t just happen, like the weather; it was a deliberate act.

  10. Southern Man says:

    A woman's capacity for falsehood is exceeded only by her capacity for self-delusion. If a woman is convinced that someone "tried to rape her" no power on Earth will ever convince her otherwise. All men know that women lie, and do so far more easily and convincingly than any man; what most men don't realize is the extent to which women believe their own lies.

  11. Austin says:

    Ironic, isn't it? As a feminist, rape crisis worker and abuse alumni, you helped usher in the very mode of thinking that now threatens your son. I'm sure it seemed all correct and proper, right up until the moment that one of yours took the hit.

  12. Twirlip says:

    actually the statistics say that the vast majority of sex crimes are NOT even reported

    Really? What “statistics” exist on crimes which were “not even reported”? Where can one access these “statistics” and how were they compiled?

  13. ericcs11 says:

    A progressive is someone who lives inside their head, in the fantasy world of theories and narratives. A progressive is someone who has not yet been mugged by reality. Unfortunately, when that inevitably occurs, it is far too late to undo the damage they have already perpetrated on society.

  14. mlsimon says:

    While I can appreciate the perspective of a distraught mother, in what appears to be an unfair situation, I cannot appreciate the need to then call the majority of women liars

    According to the FBI DNA stats it is only 25% of women who make the other 75% look bad. So I guess that women are off the hook. Mostly. Except for a few bad apples.

    “During my time as a prosecutor who made case filing decisions, I was amazed to see all the false rape allegations that were made to the Denver Police Department. It was remarkable and surprising to me. You would have to see it to believe it. Any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes that there is. A command officer in the Denver police sex assaults unit recently told me he placed the false rape numbers at approximately 45 percent.”

    Well that is a bit worse. But still not over half.

  15. CharlieInCo says:

    "Some women even harbor rape fantasies. Falsely accusing a man of rape can be deeply satisfying because it is sexual and even romantic." This statement is harmful and offensive.

    Kimberly, so is a false accusation of rape. Given the flexibility of definitions — consider, for example, that some studies used for high statistics of "sexual assault" have such broad definitions of sexual assault as to include a stolen kiss, or a mutual hookup after too much to drink — it's hard to see how any statistic can be taken at face value.

    On the other hand, after the Duke Lacrosse case, and the number of studies in which DNA evidence eventually exonerated a black man convicted of raping a white woman, it's clear that there is a significant problem of false accusations.

  16. guest says:

    Tell us, how would you have reacted to a report of an attempted rape where the male's former girlfriends stayed friends with him? That his mother said he deep spiritual practice, and was strong and honorable. I would guess that you would have believed the "victim". Why should we believe you now? Why is your son different than every other male out there who you have told us year after year, at take back the night, is a potential rapist?

    You say "a good man is being harmed". Let me tell you that many good men have been harmed for decades. Why is your son differnt? You helped make this problem, you son is paying for it.

  17. dennymack says:

    Very sad about your son. Few accusations leave such a stain as "rapist." It is like being called a racist or a sexist in that there is really no defense. People's perceptions will always be tainted.
    When any crime is politicized, justice goes by the wayside. While we do have a problem with sexual violence-and we always will- the solution has done nothing to remedy the problem, it has just created a new group of victims.
    We have tried to solve the problem by setting aside our traditional reservations about assuming guilt. That just made rape allegations a tool for the wicked.
    We have tried to solve it by redefining rape. We so blurred the line that regret can retroactively create rape. That just generated statistics that reinforce the idea that every man (your son very much included) is a rapist. Take a look behind that stat about the epidemic of rape on college campuses: "Of the college women who are raped, only 25% describe it as rape." Who are these Solons who are wise enough to know more about a sexual encounter than the participants?
    I hope that your son is telling the truth, and that his nightmare ends soon.
    I hope the girl gets her head straight so she doesn't thrash her way through life destroying everyone who strays into her orbit with the emanations of her psychosis.

  18. SDN says:

    I’ve adopted two practices for years that have stood me in good stead.

    1. If there is no evidence of actual physical force, there is no rape or molestation. Period.

    2. I am never alone with any woman unless I have video and audio equipment I control running. Period. She may not know about it, but it WILL be there.

    Until guys start adopting those two rules 100%, they will continue to be vulnerable.

  19. Steve M says:

    In my experience, the vast majority of women are perfectly capable of believing anything that will allow them to manipulate people.

  20. Brian Macker says:

    Plus individual women can make multiple charges.

    Also a woman can believe she was raped when she wasn't, for example getting drunk with a man, consenting (to a drunk man), and having sex, then assuming that was a rape because she was not able to "give consent" when inebriated. Guess what, neither could the man. Of course, this PC thinking never was about thoughtful reasoning.

  21. Brian Macker says:

    Via surveys which are also subject to lying. If 60% of actual rape accusations are false, imagine how much higher the rate of lying when all you have to do is fill out a survey form with no examination of the credibility of the claim.

  22. LeeReynolds says:

    I appreciate what you have written, but you've made a mistake in claiming that your statement was not offensive.

    Anything can be “offensive” to anyone at any time and for any reason, including no reason at all. It is an argument that has absolutely no rigor attached to it. One that can be made without anything to substantiate it. This is why it is a favorite the left. Anyone can claim to be “offended” when presented with facts they cannot refute. Leftists love to shift the rules of evidence from the real to the subjective when they have a losing argument (and they cannot lie outright). Claiming to be "offended" is merely the easiest way for them to do so. Another favorite is to accuse the person of "racism" or something else equally vague and unprovable. They are deceitful by nature and have many ready lies at their command.

    When you claim that your statement was not offensive, you fall for the con, even as you attempt to argue against it. There is no objective standard by which something can be called offensive, and even if there were it is irrelevant. A statement must be judged by its factual merits, not by the subjective emotional response it elicits from someone (or which they pretend it elicits in order to manipulate you into being silent).

  23. Brian Macker says:

    Another area you have made a mistake is in assuming that statistics on unreported sex crimes are not as if not more susceptible to distortion by lying than reported crimes. There are many factors that make lying on surveys or to ones psychiatrist as if not more likely.

    The only statistics I would trust on the percent of unreported rapes would be the number of actual sexual assault victims examined by hospitals vs those that then followed up by the police.

    We have no means of assessing the likelihood of lying for unreported rapes. Is it lower or higher? Unknown. You can't just assume that surveys on unreported rapes is going to have a rate lower than 60%, and it would have to be in order to lower the overall statistic on women lying about rape in general.

  24. LeeReynolds says:

    I sometimes wonder if they even qualify as sentient life. I think that they are the direct result of man's escape from the forces of natural selection. Psychologically defective human beings are no longer culled from the gene pool.

  25. LeeReynolds says:

    The majority of women are not being called liars, merely the majority who accuse men of rape. Since most women never make such an accusation, their reputation is not being blemished.

  26. David says:

    Years ago, I was dating a woman. I had known her for about a year and we had been going together for several weeks. One day, after work, I stopped by her apartment. We were making out when she suddenly called her sister and began describing what we were doing. I found that odd and told her I had to leave to get home because I would be on call for work (true). As I moved towards the door, she continued to rub herself against me and we began passionately making out until I noticed she had gone still. I asked her what was wrong and she told me in a cold voice that it was time for me to go. I sat in my car wondering what had just happened. So I went back and knocked on her door. She opened the door wearing grey sweats with her arms folded tightly around herself. When I asked her what just happened, she replied that the last guy who treated her like that she had put in prison. I quickly left and avoided her after that. Looking back, I think she may have had mental health issues, but I don't know. I'm just glad I got out of that relationship as easily as I did.

  27. Bull says:

    Over 3,500 years ago, the Bible (Genesis chapter 39) records that Jacob's youngest son Joseph, sold into slavery by his brothers, was taken to Egypt where he was sold to Potiphar as a household slave. Potiphar, recognizing Joseph as a great, God-fearing man, made him the head of his household. Potiphar's wife was furious at Joseph for resisting her relentless attempts to seduce him into sleeping with her, and accused him falsely of rape. Potiphar cast Joseph into prison for years.

    Fortunately, what (wo)man meant for evil, God was able to use for good in the long run. I pray that God does the same for your son, as I always hope he will do for mine.

  28. elephantjournal says:

    Great observation, but let's keep these comments kind, rather than biting. There's enough pain going on. ~ W.

  29. elephantjournal says:

    Agree with you up until the last line. There was a lot of courage and deeply considered thought that went into what you (and I) love to casually, derisively call "PC thinking." It's just a matter of balance, no? ~ W.

  30. elephantjournal says:

    Again, we can criticize without being destructive—let's keep this kind, please. ~ W.

  31. teapartydoc says:

    The whole problem begins with treating individuals as being part of a group. Our society was on the way to getting over this when some folks realized that there was a political benefit to be had from delaying this phenomenon a bit and began ascribing victim status to certain groups. Then the whole political-correctness thing happened, and here we are, no better off than we were in the fifties. Only white men are the group it is OK to oppress now. One other point: sanity is a completely individualized state. It takes quite a bit of investment of time to determine whether or not someone is sane. In our society we are always in a hurry. If we simply take more time before getting intimate–say two or three years, we are more likely to find out. People can't cover up their true selves that long.

  32. Bob Roberts says:

    To the author, I hope you enjoy the new world you helped create.

  33. Bob says:

    My sympathy begins and ends with the son.

  34. Bob says:

    Elephantjournal, I call shenanigans. There was no courage and no deeply considered thought that went into it. There were only shrieking feminist harpies doing what they do best and gutless politicians and law enforcement types proving their cowardice.

  35. Bob says:

    Just be careful with number 2. The wiretapping in some states require that both parties must be aware that recording is taking place.

  36. Karma says:

    Exactly. No woman gives a s**t about the countless boys and men who get cut to ribbons by our man-hating society, until it affects them personally.

    Thankfully, men are waking up and women had better hope we treat them better than they've treated us the last 40 years.

  37. Karma says:

    Feminism was never "good." Read "The Flipside of Feminism" by Venker & Schlafly.

    It was a scheme cooked up by mentally ill women and open Marxists in the '50s and '60s. It was created for the purpose of destabilizing our society, growing government , and empowering collectivists.

  38. MikeS says:

    Some years ago before cell phones, a friend of mine, a military psychiatrist, pulled over on the way home from the base to help a stranded motorist. The young lady, whom he had never met before, accepted a ride of about two miles into our town and was dropped off at her apartment, after which my friend went home to his wife and kids. Two hours later, the police came to question him about his alleged sexual abuse of the young woman, who said he had tried to molest her. Because of the seriousness of the allegation, the police reported the situation to the military and my friend was forbidden from seeing any patients, even men, for over 18 months, until the system finally decided there was no evidence of any wrongdoing. By that time he was deeply in debt from lawyer bills. Even worse, he was subsequently passed over for promotion, as would anyone with such an unexplained gap in his work record. He was eventually transferred and then required to retire early.

    Nothing was ever done to the young lady, despite the pain and suffering her allegation had caused my friend and his family. My friend, of course, learned a valuable lesson – any stranded motorist is strictly on her own.

  39. Karma says:

    Oh come on. How "kind" has our society been to countless boys and men over the years who run afoul of an evil woman?

    The anger is justified.

  40. Richard Aubrey says:

    It takes a particular kind of obtuseness to have done all the author describes and not anticipate the results. One has to think the reality is that she anticipated the result and didn't seem to think it a problem. Possibly thought it was a good idea. Until she had to pay the price.
    Sorry about her son.

  41. Beth says:

    Does it make you feel superior to try to hold her personally responsible for this? The system is stacked against men and the feminists wanted it set up that way. However, I believe they started out with good intentions. She (the author) was a victim, so it is natural that she identified with other victims. She has learned this lesson in a very hard way and is trying to save all innocent men – not just her son.

  42. david says:


    I love the post where the one woman accuses the other of "clouded judgment".

    The circle of female self-delusion is complete, and no truth can be known.

    Truth is, very few men rape. The answer to this particular question is provided by all the female character witnesses.

    Don't forget, most women want a guilty-until-proven-innocent standard for rape, since they want their word to be unimpeachable.

    The real corrective measure will come from men, who are getting wise t o the lies of women. When we sit on juries, we will no longer believe the crying little woman just because we are "supposed to". The Duke false rape case opened many eyes.

    The woman whose son is in trouble deserves every ounce of heartache she is experiencing, because she is getting her karma for all the other men who have been falsely accused.

    All the self-righteous religious fury of the take-back-the-night marches, the very fashionable protests (women are about nothing if not about fashion) and all the political correct enforcement SHE HELPED CREATE are now destroying her son's life.

    He does not deserve this injustice – but she is reaping what she sowed.

  43. I am shocked at these comments. Some of them are so uninformed and hurtful, I am embarrassed for the Elephant community. And I am also shocked that there is no one who works at a rape crisis center, no researcher, no one at all that is going to speak about how this article speaks to and reinforces every stereotype and myth there is about rape itself.

    This comment section has reinforced the exact environment that makes it so difficult to anyone who has been assaulted to come forward. I am the only person who has challenged the author (albeit not very articulately) and am racking up the negative signs. However the readers who suggest that the author is getting what she deserves because she believed women should have a voice and have control over our own bodies and because she was a "feminist" are racking up + signs.

    Where is the compassion and discriminate wisdom? Yes, there are men who are falsely accused, yes there are ambiguities that become confused incidents. Yes there are mental ill and women with personality disorders who make false charges. Yes there are asinine incidents with 5 years olds kissing that become labeled sexual harassment.

    But NO these are not the majority of reported rapes. The dynamic is not one where it is cushy and advantageous for a woman to make a claim.

  44. WuzzaDem says:

    Do feminists realize how many conservatives they’ve created?

    While there are so many good reasons to reject the trainwreck that is collectivism, Feminism is the kick start for many well-intended, emasculated men, the kind who feel so comfortable in Boulder. Until Feminism pulls out their big gun & accuses the sap of rape or some other sex crime.

    Fortunately I never had those big guns turned at me. I just grew weary of navigating the dangerous shoals in the giant gulf between what feminist women say they want & what they really want.

    If Leftists could lie so big about something as basic as male female relationships, I wondered as a young Boulder SNAG (sensitive new age guy), what else might the Left be lying about?

    Thus my journey away from the Left began.

  45. eagle says:

    The "false Rape society" has a wealth of accumulated false rape accusations for those interested in studying them.

  46. atlas says:

    so true

  47. atlas says:

    'Of course, women lie sometimes. But 60% of the time? I would like to see that statistic measured up against the number of sexual assaults that go unreported'.

    unreported rapes are not the discussion here. your comment is sidetracking this issue that women do lie about rape. 50-60%+ is a minimum that are routinely proven false as in lies with facts and/or the female later admitting she lied. a number beyond that simply are not provable false (or true).

  48. Ellen says:

    I am deeply disturbed by this dialogue, the attack on progressive groups perceived to have contributed to this deep societal confusion and delusion around sexual assault, and the freedom people feel to bash and make dangerously uniformed generalizations and conclusions. I am shocked. In my actual experience of treating women (which for me is far more meaningful than poorly collected statistics) who have been assaulted sexually in their life, the overwhelming majority of the assaults go unreported or do not ever get prosecuted or resolved with justice in any way. The level of trauma is staggering due to this poorly recognized crime and the impact on it's survivors. As disturbing as this article is, and the comments, it does seem to be a reflection of what survivors of assault experience, and partly explains why this crime goes so unrecognized. What a devastatingly sad commentary on our society this dialogue is.

  49. memomachine says:


    Isn't it? Mary Winkler shot her husband in the back with a shotgun, fled the state and yet she hardly spent any time in prison and even got a free house for it all.

    Yeah that's suffering that is.

  50. memomachine says:


    Here is an example of that suffering. Impressive.